• How Pure Democracy Fails

    From digimaus@618:618/1 to All on Mon Sep 23 20:56:20 2024
    [ I like the idea here but the term "democratic republic" is an oxymoron;
    they are two completely different ideas. The US is a limited constitutional republic. Democracy is just mob rule with a shortened name. ]

    From: https://tinyurl.com/p6xnrbzb (americanthinker.com)

    ===

    September 23, 2024

    How Pure Democracy Fails

    By Paul C. Binotto

    Fiddling with the Constitution to limit existing state rights in favor of
    pure majority rule should be rejected.

    Yet, there's a movement afoot to do just that. It really isn't all that
    new. An earlier example of this movement culminated in 1913 with the
    ratification of the 17^th Amendment. The primary changes the 17^th
    Amendment made to the Constitution was to provide for the direct popular
    election of U.S. senators, a function originally reserved only for the
    state's legislatures. As a result, the ability of less-populated states
    to exercise their co-equal rights was eroded.

    Presently, a push is gaining momentum to circumvent the Electoral
    College, in favor of a national popular vote. Changing how Senate seats
    are assigned to states is also being advocated. A "census-based" system
    like the one used for determining the number of seats in the House of
    Representatives, thereby, giving more populated states more seats and
    votes in the Senate.

    Whatever form and approach, the common goal is to replace the democratic
    republic form of federal government with pure democracy.

    The Supreme Court's recent reversal of Roe has increased calls for
    eliminating the Senate filibuster. It's true the filibuster is only a
    Senate rule, not law, so its elimination wouldn't directly challenge, or
    violate the Constitution. However, it does indirectly affect the
    co-equality of states guaranteed by the Constitution.

    Bruce Ledewitz, a law professor at the Catholic-affiliated Duquesne
    University, gives what he considers four good reasons in his recent
    opinion piece in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette.

    According to Ledewitz, supporters of ending the Senate filibuster believe
    that the potential benefits from the filibuster's demise, both for the
    Senate and for American democracy, outweigh any potential negative
    consequences.

    Proponents view one probable consequence of ending the filibuster to also
    be a welcomed benefit. Ledewitz enthusiastically anticipates and endorses
    that it will permit voters to "[give] control of the government to one
    party, that party could enact anything that the Constitution permits."

    He glibly dismisses this outcome as, "So what? We have a name for that
    situation. It's called democracy... Sounds like a good system. We should
    try it." Presumably because voters can always vote out the one party out.
    This naively ignores the reality of how difficult it is to remove
    one-party rule once in power.

    Most Americans would agree that one-party rule does not "sound(s) like"
    Democracy. Because it is, in fact, tyranny, only going by the name of
    democracy. And it's not at all what the Constitution's framers envisioned
    for a democratic republic form of government.

    A good argument can be made that one reason for the filibuster rule in the
    Senate is to give a tool to senators in the minority for asserting or
    forcing senators in the majority to recognize their state's co-equal
    rights. The left-leaning non-profit Brennan Center for Justice
    acknowledges, "that a group of senators representing a small minority of
    the country can use the filibuster to prevent the passage of bills with
    broad public support." Predictably, they view this practice unfavorably.
    But, in fact, the practice is vital for ensuring equal footing among all
    states in the union on the Senate floor.

    Without the filibuster, states whose senators are not in the majority risk
    losing their co-equal footing with the states in the majority. They will
    become more prone to having their Senate voices and rights diminished,
    ignored, or abused.

    Supporters of pure democracy would do well to first reflect on the
    Framer's own reasoning for rejecting it. The Framers chose their words
    carefully and precisely. They did so because they knew well that their
    words would one day be used against them, or rather, more detrimentally,
    against the Constitution which they were setting down as the new law of
    the land.

    It's important to note that the Framers deliberately chose to open the
    Constitution with "We the People." This introduction was not phrased this
    way only to show whose authority and behalf they were given the power to
    represent and speak. But also, whose rights and interests they were
    beholden to defend.

    If they intended only to speak for the majority of people, as in a pure
    democracy, they would have rightly and precisely written, "We the Majority
    of the People..." They did not, because they intended to represent equally
    all the people, the people both of the majority, and of the minority. They
    intended to create what Abraham Lincoln would later immortalize at
    Gettysburg, a national "government of the people, by the people, for the
    people" -- all the people.

    The Framers didn't reject pure democracy because they instead preferred
    minority rule, but because they had a keen understanding and distrust of
    human nature. More so, of the tyrannical tendencies of human nature
    concentrated anonymously as "The Majority." One party ruling over a
    minority is the same as an absolute monarch, as King George. They
    absolutely did not want or intend this.

    That same precision was used in the careful choice the words when naming
    the new country. The name was to describe its true character, The United
    States of America. "States," by design, hold a prominent and central
    position in the name.

    Subsequent nations would choose names familiar to all as much for what
    they are, as for what they are not, such as, the People's Republic of
    China (PRC), and the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK), aka
    North Korea. These nations, of course, are neither (purely or remotely)
    democratic nor protective of individual rights. The American democratic
    republic, the United States of America (USA), is both!

    Had the Framers intended a pure democracy, pure majority rule, they would
    have enshrined it in the nation's name. They would have named it some
    variation to those chosen by China and North Korea. And if they had, time
    would have proved pure democracy to be no less tyrannical in practice than
    the actual systems of these two other countries with free-sounding names.

    "States" hold a prominent and central position in the naming of the United
    States of America by design because the Framers wanted to clearly
    communicate that the new nation was to be a union of individual states,
    peopled by individuals with common but also distinct interests.

    By experience, from when the states were joined together only by a loose
    confederacy, they knew a republican form of government was preferable to a
    confederacy. They could also perceive how one day, what's good for a
    "California" and a "New York" may not be good for a "Montana" and an
    "Ohio." Thus, they also knew that a democratic republic form of government
    was preferable to either a pure republic or a pure democracy.

    Pure democracy may sound good on paper and may seem a no-brainer to modern
    American mind. But for good reason, it does not appear anywhere on the
    paper of the U.S. Constitution. The Framers understood well that pure
    democracy would ultimately only lead to poor democracy. Pure democracy is
    poor democracy because it does not adequately protect the rights and
    unique interests of all the people from the dangers of a tyrannical
    majority. If pure democracy did not sound good to the Framers, most
    assuredly, "one party rule" did not sound to them anything at all like
    democracy. We definitely should not try it.
    ===

    -- Sean

    ... Retirement is the time where there is plenty of it or not enough.
    --- MultiMail/Linux
    * Origin: Outpost BBS * Johnson City, TN (618:618/1)
  • From Mike Powell@618:250/1 to DIGIMAUS on Tue Sep 24 09:44:00 2024
    [ I like the idea here but the term "democratic republic" is an oxymoron; they are two completely different ideas. The US is a limited constitutional republic. Democracy is just mob rule with a shortened name. ]

    From: https://tinyurl.com/p6xnrbzb (americanthinker.com)

    Yet, there's a movement afoot to do just that. It really isn't all that
    new. An earlier example of this movement culminated in 1913 with the
    ratification of the 17^th Amendment. The primary changes the 17^th
    Amendment made to the Constitution was to provide for the direct popular
    election of U.S. senators, a function originally reserved only for the
    state's legislatures. As a result, the ability of less-populated states
    to exercise their co-equal rights was eroded.

    Presently, a push is gaining momentum to circumvent the Electoral
    College, in favor of a national popular vote. Changing how Senate seats
    are assigned to states is also being advocated. A "census-based" system
    like the one used for determining the number of seats in the House of
    Representatives, thereby, giving more populated states more seats and
    votes in the Senate.

    Whatever form and approach, the common goal is to replace the democratic
    republic form of federal government with pure democracy.

    They never stop to think that some of the things they've already (un)done
    by removing some of the checks and balances are what is causing us this supposed trouble with our system now.

    Or they do stop to think and really are trying to ruin the Constitution and
    the Republic it stands for.

    Mike


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  • From Sean Dennis@618:618/1 to Mike Powell on Fri Oct 11 22:47:08 2024
    Or they do stop to think and really are trying to ruin the Constitution
    and the Republic it stands for.

    The love of money is the root of all evil.

    -- Sean



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