Just before Christmas I decided to get a newer laptop than my current XP
T60 Lenovo Thinkpad.

I ordered a T540P Lenovo Thinkpad, with i5 4300M (2.60GHz), 8GB RAM, 1TB
SSD HD, 15.6in 1920x1080 FULL HD Screen, intel HD, DVDRW, and Win7pro/64

But they sent me one with Win10pro/64

I needed Win7 to avoid the risk of any incompatibility issues with
existing software.

Starting the new machine, I am already disliking the unfamiliar swirly
dots waking process. I still have to walk through the set up, and I
already dread all the things I will need to disable, such as Cortina.

Am I doomed?

Win7 for me purrrs and behaves quite nicely. It's an OS that I am
familiar with and can get to a task quickly. This Win10 is an annoying pot-hole that introduces further delay before I am up and running with
all my apps.

--- Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228)
* Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)

On 08 Jan 20 06:30:28, August Abolins said the following to All:

I ordered a T540P Lenovo Thinkpad, with i5 4300M (2.60GHz), 8GB RAM, 1TB SSD HD, 15.6in 1920x1080 FULL HD Screen, intel HD, DVDRW, and Win7pro/64

But they sent me one with Win10pro/64

The T540P is a very nice laptop and yes it will run Windows 7 perfectly.

I have the T440P... the only difference between mine and yours is the numeric keypad on the 540P. Trust me, both models are built "to last".

I strongly suggest installing Windows 7 but take a snapshot image *before* installing any drivers. I believe Lenovo's website has some conflicting driver listings and if I remember correctly it was the power-management stuff that failed the first time and another driver was needed. Once you have the
correct drivers and Lenovo utilities installed, take another snapshot image or at least when you are satisfied... (not "if", "when") 8-)

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

On 1/7/2020 11:36 PM, between "Nick Andre : August Abolins":

But they sent me one with Win10pro/64

The T540P is a very nice laptop and yes it will run Windows
7 perfectly.

Hi Nick,

Until I finish the dreaded Win10 setup process I won't know if something *isn't* working perfectly. And then I have to test my existing apps with
it.

I have the T440P... the only difference between mine and
yours is the numeric keypad on the 540P. Trust me, both
models are built "to last".

I've been a fan of Thinkpads since my first one as a T40p. Then I
replaced that one with my current T60. Now, storage and reliability are
motivators so I decided on the T540p. Since I need to work with
databases and numbers quite a bit, a numeric pad was essential for the
upgrade.

I strongly suggest installing Windows 7 but take a snapshot
image *before* installing any drivers.

I wonder if I can get a downgrade CD to Win7 from the vendor and do just
a clean install from that. But maybe I should just return it at their
expense for a proper configuration.

Alternatively, I thought of just putting out the $'s for a Win7pro/64
image and install fresh with that.

Until I finish the Win10 Setup, I am not even sure if they got something
else wrong.

....I believe Lenovo's
website has some conflicting driver listings and if I
remember correctly it was the power-management stuff that
failed the first time and another driver was needed..

Thanks for the heads up on that. I think I can tolerate patching Win7
to cooperate with the particulars of the T540p's operation, but the
current Win10 feels like a big let-down.

--- Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228)
* Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)

On 08 Jan 20 07:17:01, August Abolins said the following to Nick Andre:

I've been a fan of Thinkpads since my first one as a T40p. Then I
replaced that one with my current T60. Now, storage and reliability are

Preaching to the choir my friend... I was a bench-tech for years, I've worked on hundreds of laptops. Dells, HP's, Acers, Asus... the Thinkpads I've serviced were almost always limited to software problems, rarely anything to do with hardware. Thats a good thing. Except Lenovo has a budget-line which should be avoided like the plague. Cheap keyboards, plastic LCD hinges, weird placement of CPU exhaust fan, etc.

Always stick with the T or R-model Thinkpads. The L-models look okay but I've never used one thus cannot vouch for one.

An old Thinkpad R60 runs all of Zone 1 operations here, like clockwork, happily tossing mail for many months at a time between reboots. And reboots here happen only when absolutely necessary.

Until I finish the Win10 Setup, I am not even sure if they got something else wrong.

Your T540P was specifically designed from the factory to run Windows 7. I strongly recommend starting fresh with what OS it was designed to run.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

August Abolins wrote to All <=-

Win7 for me purrrs and behaves quite nicely. It's an OS that I am
familiar with and can get to a task quickly. This Win10 is an annoying pot-hole that introduces further delay before I am up and running with
all my apps.

Win 7 will stop purring soon, as Microsoft drops extended support for it
this month. Following suit, applications will stop supporting 7, as it'll be easier/cheaper to support less OS versions. And, expect future hardware drivers not to support Windows 7.

You'll then be open to security issues that aren't patched.

Best to get familiar with Windows 10, its compatibility mode, and if you're
so inclined, there are tweaks to make it look/feel like XP. I'm sure you
could mimic the UI of 7 if you wanted, too.

--- Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228)
* Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)

... It is simply a matter of work
--- MultiMail/XT v0.52
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Nick Andre wrote to August Abolins <=-

Always stick with the T or R-model Thinkpads. The L-models look okay
but I've never used one thus cannot vouch for one.

I used an L450 for a while, I liked it. Cheaper than the T, less options,
a little more plastic, but a solid performing laptop.

I keep wanting to upgrade my T410, as it's a pain to lug around after work
got me a X1 Yoga. But, my T410 has an i7 in it, and that old-school Thinkpad keyboard that I love.


... It is simply a matter of work
--- MultiMail/XT v0.52
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August,

But they sent me one with Win10pro/64

I needed Win7 to avoid the risk of any incompatibility issues with AA>existing software.

Starting the new machine, I am already disliking the unfamiliar swirly AA>dots waking process. I still have to walk through the set up, and I AA>already dread all the things I will need to disable, such as Cortina.

Am I doomed?

I was able to purchase a 32-bit version of Windows 10 (3 copies
actually) from the local Best Buy for $140 each (plus tax)...Microsoft
wanted $200 each. The reason was that the BBS computer, my late Mom's
computer, and a laptop (that originally had Vista Basic on it) were all
32-bit. I couldn't get the 32-bit to install on the laptop, so I gave
it to a fellow Sysop, who formatted it, and put Linux on it for his
daughter. So, I bought I Lenovo laptop with Windows 10 64-bit on it.

Win7 for me purrrs and behaves quite nicely. It's an OS that I am AA>familiar with and can get to a task quickly. This Win10 is an annoying AA>pot-hole that introduces further delay before I am up and running with AA>all my apps.

There is a program from IObit Utilities called Start8 -- it makes the
Start Menu look like Windows 7. I use it, plus their IObit Malware
Fighter (also protects against ransomware), Driver Booster (keeps the
drivers current), Smart Defrag (optimizes the hard drive), Advanced
System Care (lots of cleaning utilities), IObit Software Updater
(select programs to install) and IObit Uninstaller (select programs to
remove). Some of their deals allow you to put it on 3 computers for a
year.

A fellow ham radio operator refers to Windows 10 as "Satan's Little
Sextoy". :P

Daryl


* OLX 1.53 * I watch what I eat...from the plate to the mouth.
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Win32
* Origin: The Thunderbolt BBS - tbolt.synchro.net (1:19/33)

On 1/8/2020 12:42 AM, between "Nick Andre : August Abolins":

... the Thinkpads I've serviced were almost
always limited to software problems, rarely anything to do
with hardware.

Hi Nick,

My first Thinkpad, T40p, developed a common screen fade/blank problem. I
sent it to a fellow in the States to replace the backlight. Then, it
ran quite well until the fan started to make noise, and sometimes refuse
to boot because of that. Probably just needs some dust to be blown out
of the fan assembly, but I never had the confidence to open it up before
I moved to the T60 that I am using now.

...Thats a good thing. Except Lenovo has a
budget-line which should be avoided like the plague. Cheap
keyboards, plastic LCD hinges, weird placement of CPU
exhaust fan, etc.

I forgot to mention that I probably have one of those too! It's a Lenovo
G530. It was $649 + taxes in 2009. It's actually a smooth operator.
The battery can't hold much of a charge anymore, but it's operating as a
2nd terminal on the network, always plugged-in, and a UPS to support it.

Always stick with the T or R-model Thinkpads. The L-models
look okay but I've never used one thus cannot vouch for one.

An old Thinkpad R60 runs all of Zone 1 operations here, like
clockwork, happily tossing mail for many months at a time
between reboots. And reboots here happen only when
absolutely necessary.

I researched the R's at the time when I settled for the G530 because of
lower price. I read many good things about the R's. I have rarely
needed to reboot any of my computers too. I always use hibernate, and
enjoy the fast boot.

Until I finish the Win10 Setup, I am not even sure if they
got something else wrong.

Your T540P was specifically designed from the factory to run
Windows 7. I strongly recommend starting fresh with what OS
it was designed to run.

I have already sourced Win7pro, and almost convinced to just go for it.
But I'll finish the darn Win10 setup and see if I can tolerate it. I
have to migrate some essential register apps. If that works, then maybe
I'll stick with it.

../|ug

--- Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228)
* Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)

On 1/8/2020 9:58 AM, between "Kurt Weiske : August Abolins":

Win7 for me purrrs and behaves quite nicely. It's an OS
that I am familiar with and can get to a task quickly. This
Win10 is an annoying pot-hole that introduces further delay
before I am up and running with all my apps.

Win 7 will stop purring soon, as Microsoft drops extended
support for it this month.

Hello Kurt!

I'm a good boy and I don't venture to sites that could be risky and that
are the source of inviting problems. ;)

Except for a third and youngest pc that runs Win7pro/64, I still use 2
XP pcs as my primary machines.

...............Following suit, applications will
stop supporting 7, as it'll be easier/cheaper to support
less OS versions. And, expect future hardware drivers not to
support Windows 7.

I am pretty much all set with applications. I really don't need
anything more than what is already working well and what I'm already
familiar using.

You'll then be open to security issues that aren't patched.

See above. The simplest trick is still the most popular way people end
up with problems: phishing and fake links in email. I can recognize
that crap immediately.

I have had the "this is your microsoft specialist.. we have detected
that your computer is running slow.." calls. The most prevalent one that
I get at least 3 times a week is "This is an important call. Do not hang
up. Your google business listing is at risk of not being found.."

Best to get familiar with Windows 10, its compatibility
mode, and if you're so inclined, there are tweaks to make it
look/feel like XP. I'm sure you could mimic the UI of 7 if
you wanted, too.

I *am* somewhat curious about Win10. It could come in handy if a friend
needs some help to work around it. I like the idea of just making it
mimic Win7. I guess I could temporarily boot the pc with a linux
live-CD to confirm the configuration I ordered. But I should probably
tolerate the Win10 setup. I just hate the idea of all the extra work
now to disable all the monitoring features before I can do some real
work on the pc.

../|ug

--- Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228)
* Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)

On 1/8/2020 10:18 AM, between "Kurt Weiske : Nick Andre":

I keep wanting to upgrade my T410, as it's a pain to lug
around after work got me a X1 Yoga. But, my T410 has an i7
in it, and that old-school Thinkpad keyboard that I love.

Hi Kurt,

The keyboards on the T40 and T60 are very nice, comfortable, and don't
feel like the caps will come off like on many "consumer grade" pcs.

The keyboard on the T540p has taken a new design. Gone is the
sloping/beveled outer edge of the keys. The new keys have a straight
vertical edge. The F key seems to "catch" a bit when I strike it near
the top edge. :(

../|ug

--- Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228)
* Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)

On 10 Jan 20 06:41:11, August Abolins said the following to Nick Andre:

My first Thinkpad, T40p, developed a common screen fade/blank problem. I sent it to a fellow in the States to replace the backlight. Then, it
ran quite well until the fan started to make noise, and sometimes refuse
to boot because of that. Probably just needs some dust to be blown out
of the fan assembly, but I never had the confidence to open it up before
I moved to the T60 that I am using now.

Yup, I've seen those problems before. The inverter is usually the problem, then the VGA ribbon cable. The fan problems I've seen were always rare but caked with cigarette smoke or dust. Sometimes the fan would need to be replaced because the bearings would be worn.

I forgot to mention that I probably have one of those too! It's a Lenovo G530. It was $649 + taxes in 2009. It's actually a smooth operator.
The battery can't hold much of a charge anymore, but it's operating as a 2nd terminal on the network, always plugged-in, and a UPS to support it.

I didn't have a chance to elaborate on what I meant by the cheapo-models... I found the widescreens did not have the proper support that you have with the reenforced hinges on T and R models.

So what happens is the customer who owns the cheap model opens/closes from the "side" of the screen eventually breaking or wearing out the hinge on one
side. The cheapo laptop ends up on the workbench and the poor tech is told
to "just fix it" but at that point the cost of the screen assembly or labour is not worth it to the customer. There are ways to fix the screens but upon opening the cheapo-model the screw holes tended to strip wayyyyy more than
T/R models.

Its too bad because the cheapo Thinkpads still ran Windows pretty good...

I researched the R's at the time when I settled for the G530 because of lower price. I read many good things about the R's. I have rarely
needed to reboot any of my computers too. I always use hibernate, and enjoy the fast boot.

Likewise with my T440P. I always hibernate and the SSD is lightning fast.

I *could* put an SSD into the old Fidonet Thinkpad, but the amount of heavy disk-access from tossing mail would likely wear it out quicker I think.

I have already sourced Win7pro, and almost convinced to just go for it.
But I'll finish the darn Win10 setup and see if I can tolerate it. I
have to migrate some essential register apps. If that works, then maybe I'll stick with it.

Well like Kurt said, Windows 10 unfortunately is here to stay and Windows 7
is on its way out for support. I'm sticking with 7 however. I rarely do anything on my T440P other than Remote Desktop and web surfing. Its already pretty locked-down and fully backed-up to a disk image, just in case.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

August Abolins wrote to Nick Andre <=-

My first Thinkpad, T40p, developed a common screen fade/blank problem.
I sent it to a fellow in the States to replace the backlight. Then, it ran quite well until the fan started to make noise, and sometimes
refuse to boot because of that. Probably just needs some dust to be
blown out of the fan assembly, but I never had the confidence to open
it up before I moved to the T60 that I am using now.

If you still have the T40, it might be a good learning experience to take it apart. IBM has great hardware manuals with instructions, and they're easy to work on. 15 minutes, 8 screws, a can of air and a drop of oil might get it
up and running...


--- MultiMail/XT v0.52
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August Abolins wrote to Kurt Weiske <=-

I'm a good boy and I don't venture to sites that could be risky and
that are the source of inviting problems. ;)

The problem isn't the known risky sites, as they get caught in most web filters, like the ones in Chrome and Firefox. Poorly managed web sites, like the mom-and-pop bed and breakfast, or auto shop that get hijacked are more problematic.

Even my personal blog was infected at one point and was sending out malware
to people who visited it.


... Do you ever see inconsistencies in your world?
--- MultiMail/XT v0.52
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Nick Andre wrote to August Abolins <=-

Likewise with my T440P. I always hibernate and the SSD is lightning
fast.

I'm running into more and more problems at my job, people who
hibernate/sleep their laptops for weeks on end and don't log into the domain controllers on boot. I'm sounding like *that* guy -- "Have you tried turning it off and back on again?"


... What do you think management's real interests are?
--- MultiMail/XT v0.52
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On 12 Jan 20 06:42:41, August Abolins said the following to Nick Andre:

The T40 screen is not as bright as on the T60 or even the new T540p, but
the plan is to retire it and use it as a Spotify server for the
house. I could always control it from the network with another instance
of Spotify, VNC, or even an external monitor if I must. So the laptop

I'm not the biggest fan of streaming-music sites, I already have an elaborate collection of music as it is, but I do like XM radio.

Heheheh.. I see people with the widescreens doing exactly that. It is
sad to see the lids not lay perfectly flat on close.

No customer ever listened to my suggestion of opening a wide-screen laptop
from the middle and not the sides.

...I always hibernate and the SSD is lightning fast.
I *could* put an SSD into the old Fidonet Thinkpad, but the
amount of heavy disk-access from tossing mail would likely
wear it out quicker I think.

There is the whole matter of TRIM with SSD to maximize life and wear.
Only Windows 7 and up implements it by default. Linux, depends.

I'm reluctant to touch the Fidonet setup, its been working for so long in its current state. Hard drive replacements or hardware maintenance would likely
be the only thing I'll ever do on it anymore at this point.

I am still debating whether I should accept the Win10 on the T540p or
send it back. There is one sticky/noisy key on the keyboard that is probably going to help me make up my mind and request an RMA.

One key that doesnt work on a keyboard would be enough to drive me nuts but thats my OCD-personality.

Win10 will introduce its own security problems and the constant feed of security updates. I could always downgrade to Win10 later! LOL

I absolutely cannot stand the mess that is Windows 10. Three different interfaces glued together on something that phones-home and likes to tell me how and when it will update. No thanks.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

Hello Nick,

the plan is to retire it and use it as a Spotify server for the
house. I could always control it from the network with another instance
of Spotify, VNC, or even an external monitor if I must. So the laptop

I'm not the biggest fan of streaming-music sites, I already have an elaborate collection of music as it is, but I do like XM radio.

I did *not* think I would ever stay with my Spotify subscription. At first, it
was a free 3-months for $0.99. Then I decided, I'll just stay for a 3 more months and still be paying less cumulatively than the typical $10/mo for the same period.

But when I learned that it has an off-line mode, I was sold. That is ideal for me since I don't have unlimited internet at home. I can "store" the tunes and paylists on the device, and take the device home to play. If I want new tunes,
I just have to take the device where I can have unlimited internet.

It is really quite nice to audition the full pieces of a newly discovered artist or album. Even looking up old material is very handy.

No customer ever listened to my suggestion of opening a wide-screen
laptop from the middle and not the sides.

..or opening with both hands at the sides is ok.

I am still debating whether I should accept the Win10 on the T540p or
send it back. There is one sticky/noisy key on the keyboard that is
probably going to help me make up my mind and request an RMA.

One key that doesnt work on a keyboard would be enough to drive me nuts but thats my OCD-personality.

It must be driving me nuts. I received it on the 7th. I started the Win10 setup that night and got discouraged when it needed an internet connection (I only had my mobile hotspot at home). Then, exploring the keyboard feel while it was turned off, I noticed the sticky/noisy key. It's the only one that does that! I haven't touched the computer since.

..I could always downgrade to Win10 later! LOL

I absolutely cannot stand the mess that is Windows 10. Three different interfaces glued together on something that phones-home and likes to tell me how and when it will update. No thanks.

I don't want surprises. I have a set of existing/registered apps that I know will cooperate nicely in Win7, but staying Win10 might cause some favourite apps to break. I just want to get on with using a computer and not spend time working my way around a new OS before I can get anything done.

Yep.. An RMA request is in order. I paid enough for this thing, they may as well get the order right.

../|ug

--- WinPoint Beta 5 (359.1)
* Origin: Please write your complaint in this box [ ] - Legibly (2:221/1.59)

Hello August!

12 Jan 20 18:29, you wrote to Nick Andre:

It must be driving me nuts. I received it on the 7th. I started the Win10 setup that night and got discouraged when it needed an internet connection (I only had my mobile hotspot at home). Then, exploring

Win 10 will let you go though it's initial setup without a internet connection.
When it ask's for one, down in the laft bottome of the screen will be (This is from memory), a option that says "Continue with limited setup".
Click on that, and then it will go to the next step, reboot the machine and ask again. Click on it again, and it will then ask for a user name (Just like the old
setups did). It might do this three times (Anoyaning as hell).

Once you'r at the desktop, you ready to go. But it will also say that it's found a network when you plug one in, and there is a option to just close that or use the
Alt-F4 combination to kill it.




Stephen


--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: Dragon's Lair ---:- dragon.vk3heg.net -:--- (3:633/280)