Hi, Richard! Awhile ago you wrote in a message to Ardith Hinton:

Reminds me of a story, my own jh band days. GUy
sitting next to me in the trumpet section

In the second or third row, I would imagine... meaning the conductor couldn't easily see what your friend was doing with his feet.

used to reach out an nudge me with his foot when
conductor cut of a formatta (spelling)

Fermata.... :-)

and we performed concerts in the jh gymnasium,
audience in the bleachers.

Band director's wife was on an upper tier and
didn't relate the cut off signals with my neighbor
nudging me with his left foot. sO she reports my
neighbor "harassing" me during the concert.

[...]

BD is a big loud guy and does the red faced rage
bit quite well.

In the past it was not uncommon, especially at junior high level. I soon discovered as the first female band teacher in xxx community that some of my students didn't take me seriously unless I lowered my annoyance threshold & left them in no doubt about where they stood. If & when they had been with me for a year or two I could relax & open up a bit, as could they... [grin].

Band director hears my explanation and apologizes
to the fellow, in front of the entire band.

Although he & his wife may have judged this situation too hastily, I think it's to his credit that he recognized his error & made his apology where the other band members could hear it. A great lesson for all concerned. :-))




--- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
* Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)

Hello ARdith,

On Tue 2039-Jan-04 22:42, Ardith Hinton (1:153/716) wrote to Richard Webb:

Reminds me of a story, my own jh band days. GUy
sitting next to me in the trumpet section

In the second or third row, I would imagine... meaning the conductor couldn't easily see what your friend was doing with his
feet.

YEp, iirc we were third row.

Fermata.... :-)

YEah that's right, think I was pre coffee when I spelled it
originally, which is why I noted it. I haven't read a piece of sheet music of any kind now since the '80's and then it
was part of the process of my wife and I copping something
from library of congress braille music collection to our
own, which mean a hand transcription. I usually got to do
the dictation, wife do the transcription part iirc.

BD is a big loud guy and does the red faced rage
bit quite well.

In the past it was not uncommon, especially at junior high
level. I soon discovered as the first female band teacher in xxx
community that some of my students didn't take me seriously unless I lowered my annoyance threshold & left them in no doubt about where
they stood. If & when they had been with me for a year or two I
could relax & open up a bit, as could they... [grin].

RIght, but this guy was a bit too intense for most junior
high situations. HE was truly one of those musician's
musician types, played half a dozen different instruments,
and all of them very well, etc.

Band director hears my explanation and apologizes
to the fellow, in front of the entire band.

Although he & his wife may have judged this situation too hastily, I think it's to his credit that he recognized his error &
made his apology where the other band members could hear it. A
great lesson for all concerned. :-))

YEp, and part of that was his admission that he should have
expected that I'd work out an alternative signaling
arrangement with my neighbors and been able to put two and
two together. I think he was a bit disappointed that his
wife didn't correlate one action with another.

REgards,

Richard
---

* Origin: (1:116/901)

Hi, Richard! Recently you wrote in a message to Ardith Hinton:

I haven't read a piece of sheet music of any kind now
since the '80's and then it was part of the process
of my wife and I copping something from library of
congress braille music collection to our own, which
mean a hand transcription. I usually got to do the
dictation, wife do the transcription part iirc.

Thanks for the insight! It hadn't occurred to me that music could be
written in Braille... but why not?? Years ago there was a gal in our community
band who recorded the music, then took it home & memorized it. I am aware that
(with the exception of classicists, who seem to think the highest accolade they
can give a student is "s/he copied it perfectly") others may not learn the same
way. As it happens our conductor likes to experiment from time to time. Folks
such as yours truly who can read the music & watch the conductor simultaneously
are quite comfortable with his modus operandi. It didn't work for her, though,
because she was blind. If I'm expected to memorize or play by ear or copy what
somebody else has done, I feel like a fish out of water. She probably did too.

Now you've got me wondering about that C/W gig in Lethbridge.... ;-)




--- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
* Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)

HEllo Ardith,

On Wed 2039-Feb-02 23:42, Ardith Hinton (1:153/716) wrote to Richard Webb:

I haven't read a piece of sheet music of any kind now
since the '80's and then it was part of the process
of my wife and I copping something from library of
congress braille music collection to our own, which

<snip>

Thanks for the insight! It hadn't occurred to me that
music could be written in Braille... but why not?? Years ago there
was a gal in our community band who recorded the music, then took it
home & memorized it. I am aware that (with the exception of
classicists, who seem to think the highest accolade they can give a
student is "s/he copied it perfectly") others may not learn the same
way. As it happens our conductor likes to experiment from time to
time. Folks such as yours truly who can read the music & watch the conductor simultaneously are quite comfortable with his modus
operandi. It didn't work for her, though, because she was blind.

YEp, braille music isn't on the familiar staff, and
instruments such as the piano which can play chords have
their own particular notation styles, depending on the
instrument. For piano and organ folks one learns about
intervals and scales in the process of learning music,
because that's the way chords are notated. Guitar chords,
etc. are written such as cm7 for a c minor 7, bdim for a b
diminished, etc. OFten if I'm looking for a lead sheet of a popular tune and wish to learn it I'll look at the guitar
chords and the single note melody line, as I have to think
hard sometimes to remember the complex interval signs etc.
if there's also a piano part written, but often all that's
written is the chord notation and the melody line along with words.

Strange thing was back in my younger days often by the time
I'd received my sheet music transcriptions, unless I did it
with somebody else dictating I'd already memorized the part
by just attending rehearsals <grin>. My mother learned to
read sheet music enough to do the dictation whileI
transcribed to braille, with resources she could call on the phone such as the band director to decipher an unfamiliar
symbol when needed.

If I'm expected to memorize or play by ear or copy what somebody
else has done, I feel like a fish out of water. She probably did
too.

INdeed, as do I often, can do it, but it isn't quite as
easy. I guess that's why I'm a jazz person <g>.

Now you've got me wondering about that C/W gig in
Lethbridge.... ;-)

WAs fun and interesting for a few days. I couldn't quite
get used to the fact that if I had a drink, even
nonalcoholic while on break and wished to take it to the
bandstand I couldn't do that, one of the wait staff had to
bring me my drink on the bandstand. OTherwise, was just
another 6 day stand in another town basically <grin>.


Regards,
Richard
--- timEd 1.10.y2k+
* Origin: (1:116/901)

Hi again, Richard! This is a continuation of my previous message to you:

[...] this guy was a bit too intense for most junior
high situations.

Sounds familiar. I taught theory & expected my students to work with
me to produce the best sound we could achieve together even though my principal
said "Just keep 'em playing... that's what they want at this age!" I was never
as popular as the band teacher at his former school. But a few years later one
of my ex-students told me, with some amazement, that the kids in his band class
at senior high who hadn't been in my class had no experience with 5/4. Another
followed in my footsteps & eventually became a band teacher himself. AFAIC one
can't be sure who will become a professional musician or a teacher or a staunch
supporter of the arts later on & I owe it to my students to do my best.... :-)

HE was truly one of those musician's musician types,

Some folks end up as teachers only after they realize they can't make
a living as professional musicians...

played half a dozen different instruments, and all of
them very well, etc.

... OTOH, unlike many of my classmates who were enrolled in the music
department rather than the education department, he seems to have taken courses
of this nature seriously! I can play half a dozen instruments too, but I don't
necessarily play all of them well or have the nerve to do it in public.... ;-)

A great lesson for all concerned. :-))

YEp, and part of that was his admission that he should
have expected that I'd work out an alternative signaling
arrangement with my neighbors and been able to put two and
two together. I think he was a bit disappointed that his
wife didn't correlate one action with another.

Perhaps he accepted her interpretation without question... regardless
of how well she knew each individual student and/or how much she knew about the
technical aspects of conducting... because she was his wife. Dallas & I have a
friend in his eighties who, while he himself has remained single, repeats a lot
of the grumbling he hears from another person about wife #2 with no distinction
between fact & opinion. Although we haven't met wife #2 we have known this man
since he was married to wife #1. We can both see why he'd be difficult to live
with. Our friend once said as much but clearly idolized wife #1... [wry grin].

I believe a lot of otherwise intelligent adults who are old enough to
have fully developed prefrontal lobes (or whatever) tend to make errors of this
nature fairly often when their nearest & dearest are involved. As a teacher, I
know I must be objective in my evaluation... and I know I must provide adequate
data to support whatever conclusion(s) I arrive at. Your teacher probably knew
that too. As a wife & mother, however, I often find myself expected in various
social situations to keep other women occupied so their menfolk can talk freely
about the common interests which brought them together with Dallas & me. While
I don't know the woman you've alluded to it wouldn't surprise me if her husband
chose her at least in part because she was operating on a different level, then
overestimated her ability to understand his concerns sometimes. But I think it
is to his credit that he was educable. I'm also taking into account when these
events probably occurred. Years ago, the average schoolteacher had no training
or experience WRT special needs. Your teacher may have been a pioneer, just as
Dallas & I were, with very few positive role models & with very little support.

Reading between the lines... I gather you & I are about the same age.
As it happens, our own daughter attended the elementary school a girl I babysat
during my late teens wasn't allowed to attend because she was legally blind. A
lot has changed since then. I reckon you encountered some of the same problems
we've encountered, however. The idea that folks who are "different" want to do
what they're doing is still new & unfamiliar to many other folks. And we often
find ourselves battling misconceptions such as the idea that everybody who uses
a wheelchair is exactly like whoever else gets most of the publicity... (sigh).




--- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
* Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)

Hello Ardith,

On Sun 2039-Feb-06 22:26, Ardith Hinton (1:153/716) wrote to Richard Webb:

Sounds familiar. I taught theory & expected my students
to work with me to produce the best sound we could achieve together
even though my principal said "Just keep 'em playing... that's what
they want at this age!" I was never as popular as the band teacher
at his former school. But a few years later one of my ex-students
told me, with some amazement, that the kids in his band class at
senior high who hadn't been in my class had no experience with 5/4. Another followed in my footsteps & eventually became a band teacher himself. AFAIC one can't be sure who will become a professional
musician or a teacher or a staunch supporter of the arts later on &
I owe it to my students to do my best.... :-)

INdeed, and a friend of mine went in with much the same
approach, he was a music major instead of pedagogy, but fell into teaching. YEars later after his death I met a lady
while helping do a bit of training for folks going into a
program mentoring the newly blinded who wished, or needed to remain in their homes instead of going to a facility to
learn about their blindness. This lady's daughter was one
of his pupils and sang his praises for getting the kids
actually interested in learning about music.

Some folks end up as teachers only after they realize they
can't make a living as professional musicians...

YEah there's that too. I play three or four instruments
well enough, but I'm not suited to teaching well. I don't
have the patience for it, and part of that patience is an
impatience with myself if I"M not getting an important
concept through to a pupil. That impatience with myself for not being able to put it across manifests itself in the
pupil perceiving I'm frustrated with him/her.

A friend of mine however says I'm a very thorough and
patient teacher, but that was in another subject, not the
music. I"ve come to the conclusion that maybe I can teach
radio theory, or radio operating techniques, etc. but just
am not temperamentally suited to teaching music. THat fits
too, as I'm the guy who will walk out on a bad performance,
or a musician failing to tune his instrument properly.

YEp, and part of that was his admission that he should
have expected that I'd work out an alternative signaling
arrangement with my neighbors and been able to put two and
two together. I think he was a bit disappointed that his
wife didn't correlate one action with another.

Perhaps he accepted her interpretation without question... regardless of how well she knew each individual student and/or how
much she knew about the technical aspects of conducting...

<snip good points> Would agree with those, and that's part
of what got him, he should have been thinking that far in
his mind. Later on he told me he'd always figured I had
some sort of signaling arrangement in place with my
neighbors.

because

I think it is to his credit that he was educable. I'm also taking
into account when these events probably occurred. Years ago, the
average schoolteacher had no training or experience WRT special
needs. Your teacher may have been a pioneer, just as Dallas & I
were, with very few positive role models & with very little support.

HE admitted to me he didn't even think about some of those
ramifications at first. HIS main concern was getting music
to me with enough lead time that I could get it in braille.
I think he also spoke with the band director at the school
for the blind, and understood that I'd work out the tools I
needed to perform competently.

Reading between the lines... I gather you & I are about
the same age. As it happens, our own daughter attended the
elementary school a girl I babysat during my late teens wasn't
allowed to attend because she was legally blind. A lot has changed
since then. I reckon you encountered some of the same problems
we've encountered, however. The idea that folks who are "different"
want to do what they're doing is still new & unfamiliar to many
other folks. And we often find ourselves battling misconceptions
such as the idea that everybody who uses a wheelchair is exactly
like whoever else gets most of the publicity... (sigh).

Right, that's a big part of it. Another though is that
often in these days when inclusion is the norm the systems
are set up to be inflexible, and therefore don't force the
student to think about his or her own needs and therefore
develop the tools to independently get the work done. ASk
many blind college students, and they'll tell you that the
disability services office on campus is both bane and boon.
YOu'd be surprised the number of blind college grads that do not have effective
techniques for hiring training
supervising, and paying readers. Even if rehab or somebody
else picks up the tab good programs put the power to hire
fire and train, as well as the responsibility for submitting vouchers and other
requisite paperwork to get the reader
paid directly on the user of the reader.


MOre later, I have to run a network on the ham radio later
this morning so better organize myself <grin>.


Regards,
Richard
--- timEd 1.10.y2k+
* Origin: (1:116/901)

Hi, Richard! Recently you wrote in a message to Ardith Hinton:

AFAIC one can't be sure who will become a professional
musician or a teacher or a staunch supporter of the arts
later on & I owe it to my students to do my best.... :-)

INdeed, and a friend of mine went in with much the same
approach, he was a music major instead of pedagogy, but
fell into teaching.

[...]

This lady's daughter was one of his pupils and sang his
praises for getting the kids actually interested in
learning about music.

I know many others who "fell into" teaching, as your friend did, and turned out to be very good at it. If he really enjoyed learning about music & working with kids, his enthusiasm was probably contagious.... :-)

I play three or four instruments well enough, but I'm
not suited to teaching well. I don't have the patience
for it, and part of that patience is an impatience with
myself if I"M not getting an important concept through
to a pupil. That impatience with myself for not being
able to put it across manifests itself in the pupil
perceiving I'm frustrated with him/her.

IMHO you have the right instincts! Years ago I remarked to a friend that I couldn't always be sure whether a particular feeling originated from me or the person(s) I was with. She doubted my sanity. But shortly thereafter I found a book written for teachers which said basically what you've said. If a student appears to be discouraged, bored, impatient etc. they may be mirroring what they believe they're seeing in *us*... and vice versa. The onus on us as teachers is to recognize what's happening & make appropriate adjustments.

Abstract ideas are especially difficult to put into words sometimes. I'm reminded of an incident which occurred when my grade 9/10 band was playing a tango. I wanted it to sound sensuous, but not being quite as wordly-wise as they thought they were they couldn't understand what I meant... and the more I tried to explain the more frustrated all of us felt. So I said "Okay, pretend I'm wearing a slinky black dress." Then, in my sensible tweed suit & sensible shoes, I paraded in front of the class with an exaggerated wiggle of the hips. One of these kids later became a personal friend. According to his version of the story, the guy next to him exclaimed "Did you see that?? She looks like a streetwalker!" We agreed that the guy next to him was a space cadet. Even he seemed to get the message, however, when I acted it out... [chuckle].

A friend of mine however says I'm a very thorough and
patient teacher, but that was in another subject, not the
music. I"ve come to the conclusion that maybe I can teach
radio theory, or radio operating techniques, etc. but just
am not temperamentally suited to teaching music. THat fits
too, as I'm the guy who will walk out on a bad performance,
or a musician failing to tune his instrument properly.

When we were younger, Dallas & I often heard somebody's fridge or TV whistling at a very high frequency and level of dissonance. We'd ask "How can you stand that whistle?"... to which the reply was invariably "What whistle??" People who live and/or work in a noisy environment... including music teachers ... tend to become hard of hearing in later years. Because you have little or no useful vision I imagine you depend a great deal on hearing to find your way around in strange places & cross roads safely as well as to earn a living. If you get positive feedback with regard to another subject area, what I see is a thorough & patient teacher with a healthy sense of self-preservation.... :-))




--- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
* Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)

Hello Ardith,

On Thu 2039-Feb-24 23:52, Ardith Hinton (1:153/716) wrote to Richard Webb:

<snip>

INdeed, and a friend of mine went in with much the same
approach, he was a music major instead of pedagogy, but
fell into teaching.

This lady's daughter was one of his pupils and sang his
praises for getting the kids actually interested in
learning about music.

I know many others who "fell into" teaching, as your
friend did, and turned out to be very good at it. If he really
enjoyed learning about music & working with kids, his enthusiasm was probably contagious.... :-)

TOm was definitely a people person, and enthusiastic about
music. He didn't fit with the administration real well
however, hence he went back to doing carpentry and playing
what gigs he could find.

I play three or four instruments well enough, but I'm
not suited to teaching well. I don't have the patience
for it, and part of that patience is an impatience with
myself if I"M not getting an important concept through
to a pupil.

<snip>

IMHO you have the right instincts! Years ago I remarked
to a friend that I couldn't always be sure whether a particular
feeling originated from me or the person(s) I was with. She doubted
my sanity. But shortly thereafter I found a book written for
teachers which said basically what you've said. If a student
appears to be discouraged, bored, impatient etc. they may be
mirroring what they believe they're seeing in *us*... and vice
versa. The onus on us as teachers is to recognize what's happening
& make appropriate adjustments.

Indeed, and I do better with that elsewhere.

LIked your example, trying to describe sensuous to your
class <grin>.

A friend of mine however says I'm a very thorough and
patient teacher, but that was in another subject, not the
music. I"ve come to the conclusion that maybe I can teach
radio theory, or radio operating techniques, etc. but just
am not temperamentally suited to teaching music. THat fits
too, as I'm the guy who will walk out on a bad performance,
or a musician failing to tune his instrument properly.

When we were younger, Dallas & I often heard somebody's
fridge or TV whistling at a very high frequency and level of
dissonance. We'd ask "How can you stand that whistle?"... to which
the reply was invariably "What whistle??" People who live and/or
work in a noisy environment... including music teachers ... tend to
become hard of hearing in later years. Because you have little or
no useful vision I imagine you depend a great deal on hearing to
find your way around in strange places & cross roads safely as well
as to earn a living. If you get positive feedback with regard to
another subject area, what I see is a thorough & patient teacher
with a healthy sense of self-preservation.... :-))

OF course, I just can't do bad sound. IN fact, my lady will tell you one of my
major things is "life's too short for bad sound." IF you can't sing, don't! IF you can't play the
violin, please put the violin down.

Funny thing about ambient sounds, refrigerators etc. I'm
always noticing that stuff too. Also, thanks to too many
years in loud environments, both musically and otherwise
I've a bit of tinitis that often gives me the internal ringy dingy as well. Last couple days I"ve been doing the
bachelor thing, lady is hospitalized, and that means her
oxygen concentrator isn't running 24/7 in the other room.
IT's funny how just that one device not operating has
lowered the ambient noise floor around here. Now it's down
to the refrigerator, the chest freezer, two computer fans
and a 12 volt dc 60 amp supply's cooling fans.
Even when teaching other than musical subjects I prefer to
do the one on one thing.


Regards,
Richard
--- timEd 1.10.y2k+
* Origin: (1:116/901)

Hi, Richard! Awhile ago you commented about Braille music & whatnot:

For piano and organ folks one learns about intervals
and scales in the process of learning music

Sounds good to me! I'm glad I started on piano because it made the theory so much easier to understand. At beginner level the sharps & flats are the black keys. If you can't see them you can feel that they're assigned to a different position on the keyboard and, on older instruments, may be made of a different material. Even now I visualize the piano keyboard at times when I'm struggling to get a handle on a chord symbol or a theoretical concept.... :-)

often all that's written is the chord notation and the
melody line along with words.

Ah... I've seen a similar style of writing in the "fake books" used by dance band musicians. In this context, if Joe Doakes asks for a song which the musicians aren't familiar with they can probably look it up... and he will probably be quite content if the tune is more or less as he remembers it. ;-)

in my younger days often by the time I'd received my sheet
music transcriptions, unless I did it with somebody else
dictating I'd already memorized the part by just attending
rehearsals <grin>. My mother learned to read sheet music
enough to do the dictation while I transcribed to braille,
with resources she could call on the phone such as the band
director to decipher an unfamiliar symbol when needed.

If I'm expected to memorize or play by ear or copy what
somebody else has done, I feel like a fish out of water.
[The blind woman in our community band] probably did too.

INdeed, as do I often, can do it, but it isn't quite as
easy.

I hear you. I coped when somebody turned out the lights because it was somebody else's birthday & they were determined to show off a cake adorned with sparklers to best advantage, but didn't think to warn the musicians about their plans (and evidently didn't notice what *we* were doing at the time). I coped when one of my fellow teachers asked me to show her grade two students a bit more about the clarinet I used to play THE MARCH OF THE THREE KINGS behind the scenes in rehearsal for a school Christmas pageant & discovered only after my arrival in class that the kids also expected me to play something they were more familiar with. Now I know I can play TWINKLE, TWINKLE LITTLE STAR by ear if need be. My heart was in my boots & I still prefer to read the music. :-)

I guess that's why I'm a jazz person <g>.

Dallas is a jazz person too. That's how I know about "fake books", and that's why I was wondering how you managed to pull off a gig in a style of music you don't usually play. At a formal concert one might have a few pieces up one's sleeve... but I imagine a C/W gig as an informal situation, where one might be expected to deal with requests. Quite a challenge, in any case. :-)

Now you've got me wondering about that C/W gig in
Lethbridge.... ;-)

WAs fun and interesting for a few days. I couldn't
quite get used to the fact that if I had a drink, even
nonalcoholic while on break and wished to take it to the
bandstand I couldn't do that, one of the wait staff had
to bring me my drink on the bandstand.

We have... or used to have... a law in BC to the effect that anyone drinking an alcoholic beverage must not walk around with it in a public place, including (e.g.) a restaurant open to the general public. I think the law has now been changed. But perhaps Alberta had a similar law 'way back when... and perhaps some folks find it easier to make a blanket prohibition than to bother keeping track of whose soda, coffee, etc. may have been spiked with what. :-)

OTherwise, was just another 6 day stand in another
town basically <grin>.

Uh-huh. Dallas did that sort of thing, and you've just reminded me of an Oktoberfest experience after which he resolved not to do it again. :-))




--- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
* Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)

Hello Ardith,

On Wed 2039-Mar-30 20:16, Ardith Hinton (1:153/716) wrote to Richard Webb:

For piano and organ folks one learns about intervals
and scales in the process of learning music

Sounds good to me! I'm glad I started on piano because
it made the theory so much easier to understand. At beginner level
the sharps & flats are the black keys. If you can't see them you
can feel that they're assigned to a different position on the
keyboard and, on older instruments, may be made of a different
material. Even now I visualize the piano keyboard at times when I'm struggling to get a handle on a chord symbol or a theoretical
concept.... :-)

IT always did for me too. YOu learn to think in intervals,
especially when you learned braille keyboard music notation, because the notation on staves isn't possible, so interval
indicators are used to tell you how the chord should be
voiced.

often all that's written is the chord notation and the
melody line along with words.

Ah... I've seen a similar style of writing in the "fake
books" used by dance band musicians. In this context, if Joe Doakes
asks for a song which the musicians aren't familiar with they can
probably look it up... and he will probably be quite content if the
tune is more or less as he remembers it. ;-)

YEp, very similar for a lot of what I"ve done. USed to
transcribe stuff from them, but usually found it simpler to
just learn it by ear. MOre on that in a minute <grin>.

<snip>

If I'm expected to memorize or play by ear or copy what
somebody else has done, I feel like a fish out of water.
[The blind woman in our community band] probably did too.

I'm sure she did <grin>. sHe might have done a lot of
memorization by hearing the part in rehearsal played by
other instruments in her section too.

<snip>

I guess that's why I'm a jazz person <g>.

Dallas is a jazz person too. That's how I know about
"fake books", and that's why I was wondering how you managed to pull
off a gig in a style of music you don't usually play. At a formal
concert one might have a few pieces up one's sleeve... but I imagine
a C/W gig as an informal situation, where one might be expected to
deal with requests. Quite a challenge, in any case. :-)

AS long as somebody on the bandstand knows the changes I'll
do fine, I'll lay back usually the first time through the
series verses choruses and any bridge, play fill and make
sure I've got the chord changes in my head, and/or melody
line if I'm supposed to support that as well. Even if a
colleague doesn't know it, if he's got the fake book we're
fine.

Now you've got me wondering about that C/W gig in
Lethbridge.... ;-)

WAs fun and interesting for a few days. I couldn't
quite get used to the fact that if I had a drink, even
nonalcoholic while on break and wished to take it to the
bandstand I couldn't do that, one of the wait staff had
to bring me my drink on the bandstand.

We have... or used to have... a law in BC to the effect
that anyone drinking an alcoholic beverage must not walk around with
it in a public place, including (e.g.) a restaurant open to the
general public. I think the law has now been changed. But perhaps
Alberta had a similar law 'way back when... and perhaps some folks
find it easier to make a blanket prohibition than to bother keeping
track of whose soda, coffee, etc. may have been spiked with what.
:-)

Indeed, am sure that's what it was. They told me was
provincial law iirc. At least it was summertime when I was
up there.

OTherwise, was just another 6 day stand in another
town basically <grin>.

Uh-huh. Dallas did that sort of thing, and you've just
reminded me of an Oktoberfest experience after which he resolved not
to do it again. :-))

Can understand that. Did a lot of the one nighters too,
both as sound person and musician. They're almost worse,
don't get enough sleep, etc.
WHen we'd do the multiple night things though I'd try to
look for the unique things to visit or enjoy wherever I was
and check them out. ONe band I played with (the same one I
did LEthbridge with) used to do a lot of fishing after work. We'd end the show around 1:00 A.M. and late night television was a vast wasteland, with or without cable which not every
hotel/motel we stayed at offered. FIshing was cheap
entertainment. But, if we caught anything we had to be
careful, because we almost never acquired the local permits
because they're a pita often for transient folks to get.
IF we thought we'd be coming back there throughout the rest
of the year though we'd go ahead and find the place to
acquire them.
I think we spent most of the lEthbridge week cruising the
national park area in MOntana next door, etc. Guitar man's
girlfriend was with us that week, and she was a nature
photography buff. I'd ride along with them just to
alleviate boredom sitting around the motel room. I think
first couple days I wandered around lEthbridge a bit,
otherwise I rode with them to various scenic spots where she could burn some film.

Regards,
Richard
--- timEd 1.10.y2k+
* Origin: (1:116/901)

Hi, Richard! Awhile ago you wrote in a message to Ardith Hinton:

HE admitted to me he didn't even think about some of those
ramifications at first. HIS main concern was getting music
to me with enough lead time that I could get it in braille.
I think he also spoke with the band director at the school
for the blind, and understood that I'd work out the tools I
needed to perform competently.

I get the impression he was basically on the right track, but found his own learning curve rather steep at times. When our daughter was about two years old I noticed that she was devising some good educational strategies for herself in many areas. She still needed help in certain areas, of course, and so did I. But in general I'm inclined to agree with the teacher at the school for the blind in that a bright & articulate student such as you would probably have more understanding of what works for him than others would by the time he reached junior high. One of the problems Dallas & I have often encountered as parents is (as Nora puts it) "I try to tell them, but they don't listen". :-(

often in these days when inclusion is the norm the systems
are set up to be inflexible, and therefore don't force the
student to think about his or her own needs and therefore
develop the tools to independently get the work done.

Give a man a fish, and he will have food for a day... teach him how to fish, and he will have food for a lifetime (Chinese proverb). As a teacher my inclination is to make people think, but not everybody appreciates that! I had students who pleaded for stuff they could copy, memorize, and regurgitate. Knowing what I know now I recognize this learning style as the preferred style of about 40% of the general population. The percentage among bureacrats is, I suspect, even higher. Regarding "the system" one also has to contend with the bean counters whose idea of efficiency is hiring whoever will work for minimal pay doing things to or for a client, where some folks might eventually be able to do these things for themselves with a larger investment up front... (sigh).

Ask many blind college students, and they'll tell you that the
disability services office on campus is both bane and boon.

I could say the same of many services here... (wry grin).

YOu'd be surprised the number of blind college grads that do
not have effective techniques for hiring training supervising,
and paying readers.

Nah. It takes more than that to surprise me.... :-))

Trying to synthesize what I know (or think I know) with what you've said about readers, however... the library at UBC uses volunteers to record at least some material. In this case different chapters of a book are often read by different people who are probably not identified by name. Thus the student can't say to person xxx "I like your style... will you work for me privately?" as we did with a few of Nora's therapists. And in my experience a person with special needs generally doesn't have all of them met by one organization. :-)

Even if rehab or somebody else picks up the tab good
programs put the power to hire fire and train, as well
as the responsibility for submitting vouchers and other
requisite paperwork to get the reader paid directly on
the user of the reader.

Dallas & I managed to find a few good programs and obtain help with certain expenses. In general, however, we had to do our own research WRT such matters... and we tolerate the endless paperwork in order to get the most bang for the buck. We have the power to hire & fire & train our own employees now, but we are older & more experienced than the average university student. It's important to remember also that many people (regardless of age) prefer to have others take care of all the arrangements and/or tell them what they should do. If you're not like that it may be more difficult to get what you want.... ;-)

MOre later, I have to run a network on the ham radio
later this morning so better organize myself <grin>.

And in view of what's been going on in Japan & various other places I'm completely supportive of what you're doing! First we have to survive on a physical level, then we can afford to ruminate on what makes people tick. :-)




--- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
* Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)

HI Ardith,

On Mon 2039-Apr-04 22:26, Ardith Hinton (1:153/716) wrote to Richard Webb:

I think he also spoke with the band director at the school
for the blind, and understood that I'd work out the tools I
needed to perform competently.

I get the impression he was basically on the right track,
but found his own learning curve rather steep at times. When our
daughter was about two years old I noticed that she was devising
some good educational strategies for herself in many areas. She
still needed help in certain areas, of course, and so did I. But in general I'm inclined to agree with the teacher at the school for the
blind in that a bright & articulate student such as you would
probably have more understanding of what works for him than others
would by the time he reached junior high. One of the problems
Dallas & I have often encountered as parents is (as Nora puts it) "I
try to tell them, but they don't listen". :-(

INdeed, by the time a person gets to that age, especially if he/she has lived with a certain condition, i.e. blindness
all his life then he should be able to think through
something and devise strategies effectively.

Give a man a fish, and he will have food for a day...
teach him how to fish, and he will have food for a lifetime (Chinese proverb). As a teacher my inclination is to make people think, but
not everybody appreciates that! I had students who pleaded for
stuff they could copy, memorize, and regurgitate. Knowing what I
know now I recognize this learning style as the preferred style of
about 40% of the general population. The percentage among
bureacrats is, I suspect, even higher. Regarding "the system" one
also has to contend with the bean counters whose idea of efficiency
is hiring whoever will work for minimal pay doing things to or for a client, where some folks might eventually be able to do these things
for themselves with a larger investment up front... (sigh).

INded, I find that often. IN many different walks of life.

Ask many blind college students, and they'll tell you that the
disability services office on campus is both bane and boon.

I could say the same of many services here... (wry grin).

Was no such thing as a "disability services" office back in
my college days <grin>.

YOu'd be surprised the number of blind college grads that do
not have effective techniques for hiring training supervising,
and paying readers.

Nah. It takes more than that to surprise me.... :-))

eVerybody works a little different, and one needs to have
the power to retain/replace readers. Without control of the purse you don't have. Kathy and I have been together over a decade now, and she's finally figuring out how to read
something orally and maximize get the work done, such as
help me skim the manual for a new piece of electronic
equipment, etc. sHe's used to doing the start of a section
and me interrupting with "skip it we'll come back to that."
OR she'll get "mark that place we might need that."

Trying to synthesize what I know (or think I know) with
what you've said about readers, however... the library at UBC uses volunteers to record at least some material. In this case different chapters of a book are often read by different people who are
probably not identified by name. Thus the student can't say to
person xxx "I like your style... will you work for me privately?" as
we did with a few of Nora's therapists. And in my experience a
person with special needs generally doesn't have all of them met by
one organization. :-)

MIght be difficult, only things I"ve seen read like that
here in the states were some periodicals done by smaller
organizations. The big audio producers in the blindness
reading world, American PRinting HOuse, American Foundation
for the Blind, would use a single reader, and were pretty
diligent about getting him/her to pronounce acronyms and
unfamiliar words correctly. A dectionary and other tools
are always handy to the reading booth I understand.
SPeaking of which, years ago AFB in NEw York used a room for their talking book
studio where you could hear the squeak of the hvac fan. I wrote them a couple letters about it, and
I'm not a frequent talking book user as some are. But, over that couple year period I happened to notice it on more than one title which was recorded at APH. I was surprised their
recording engineer didn't say anything.

Even if rehab or somebody else picks up the tab good
programs put the power to hire fire and train, as well
as the responsibility for submitting vouchers and other
requisite paperwork to get the reader paid directly on
the user of the reader.

Dallas & I managed to find a few good programs and obtain
help with certain expenses. In general, however, we had to do our
own research WRT such matters... and we tolerate the endless
paperwork in order to get the most bang for the buck. We have the
power to hire & fire & train our own employees now, but we are older
& more experienced than the average university student. It's
important to remember also that many people (regardless of age)
prefer to have others take care of all the arrangements and/or tell
them what they should do. If you're not like that it may be more
difficult to get what you want.... ;-)

RIght, but even though you might prefer to have that lifted
from your shoulders in college, that's when you need to
develop those skills. cOllege is supposed to be the end
game of prep for life. IF you're going to live as a blind
person part of preparing for life out there on the rat race
course is to learn how to manage your readers effectively,
obtain services you *do* need, and say no to those you
really don't. Iow empowerment is more than a buzz word with some of us <grin>>

MOre later, I have to run a network on the ham radio
later this morning so better organize myself <grin>.

And in view of what's been going on in Japan & various
other places I'm completely supportive of what you're doing! First
we have to survive on a physical level, then we can afford to
ruminate on what makes people tick. :-)

YEp, in fact that net was working with some vessels in the
pacific that day, advising many to turn back instead of
heading *for* shore, telling them to stay out another day or two, in open waters they had a better chance of surviving it without damage.

Regards,
Richard
--- timEd 1.10.y2k+
* Origin: (1:116/901)

Ardith,

Fermata.... :-)

Like 2 musical T-Shirts I saw 40 years ago..."I'm a Fermata -- Hold Me"...and "I'm an Accent -- Attack Me". <G>

Daryl

===
■ OLX 1.53 ■ 35 million laws are trying to enforce The 10 Commandments
--- SBBSecho 3.03-Win32
* Origin: FIDONet: The Thunderbolt BBS - wx1der.dyndns.org (1:19/33)