• enc + netmail

    From August Abolins@2:221/360 to Wilfred van Velzen on Sun Jan 5 17:46:25 2020
    On 1/5/2020 7:03 AM, between "Wilfred van Velzen : August Abolins":

    Next to being able to sign messages in echomail/newsgroups,
    fully encrypted messages only make sense in email - direct
    to a specific individual.

    Or routed netmail!

    But we really don't know the exact route a netmail will take.

    For a user, unless they analyze the nodelist or confirm things with
    their sysop, netmail is unreliable.

    I also use point-software (OpenXP) which allows sending crash mail. With
    that, I could crash my encrypted netmail to its final destination with confidence to any system that flies the U,ENC flags.


    That's the beauty of pulling down the keys and checking
    their properties. The properties will reveal creation
    dates, expiry dates, revocations, etc. It would be
    relatively easy to just pick the most recent date, and send
    a brief hello message with a CC: and see which ones reach
    their target.

    If there are multiple keys to choose from...

    Yeah, tracking people down from the past that have only one email addy
    listed on the servers with an expired key could be a challenge.

    ../|ug

    --- Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228)
    * Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to August Abolins on Sun Jan 5 17:27:07 2020
    Hi August,

    On 2020-01-05 17:46:25, you wrote to me:

    Next to being able to sign messages in echomail/newsgroups,
    fully encrypted messages only make sense in email - direct
    to a specific individual.

    Or routed netmail!

    But we really don't know the exact route a netmail will take.

    Nope.

    For a user, unless they analyze the nodelist or confirm things with
    their sysop, netmail is unreliable.

    Indeed. But I doubt many systems still filter-out/bounce netmail with encrypted
    content.

    I also use point-software (OpenXP) which allows sending crash mail.
    With that, I could crash my encrypted netmail to its final destination with confidence to any system that flies the U,ENC flags.

    And in case of a point as destination of which the boss has the ENC flag. You can crash the encrypted netmail at the boss's system...


    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/360 to Wilfred van Velzen on Sun Jan 5 20:51:01 2020
    On 05/01/2020 11:27 a.m., Wilfred van Velzen : August Abolins wrote:


    For a user, unless they analyze the nodelist or confirm things
    with their sysop, netmail is unreliable.

    Indeed. But I doubt many systems still filter-out/bounce
    netmail with encrypted content.

    Now that you let the cat out of the bag, so to speak.. sysops may be
    interested to add such filters to find out! LOL


    And in case of a point as destination of which the boss has the
    ENC flag. You can crash the encrypted netmail at the boss's
    system...

    Exactly. The ENC flag is usually flown by the boss. It's a
    bonus/incentive if that system supports point users.

    ../|ug

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1
    * Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to August Abolins on Sun Jan 5 20:33:40 2020
    Hi August,

    On 2020-01-05 20:51:01, you wrote to me:

    For a user, unless they analyze the nodelist or confirm things
    with their sysop, netmail is unreliable.

    Indeed. But I doubt many systems still filter-out/bounce
    netmail with encrypted content.

    Now that you let the cat out of the bag, so to speak.. sysops may be interested to add such filters to find out! LOL

    I don't think our audience is that big. ;)

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/360 to Wilfred van Velzen on Sun Jan 5 22:58:39 2020
    On 05/01/2020 2:33 p.m., Wilfred van Velzen : August Abolins wrote:

    Now that you let the cat out of the bag, so to speak.. sysops
    may be interested to add such filters to find out! LOL

    I don't think our audience is that big.

    Unless there are publicly disclosed traffic stats on netmail flowing
    through fidonet, we'll never quite know.

    ../|ug

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1
    * Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to August Abolins on Mon Jan 6 18:23:00 2020
    Hi August,

    On 2020-01-05 22:58:39, you wrote to me:

    Now that you let the cat out of the bag, so to speak.. sysops
    may be interested to add such filters to find out! LOL

    I don't think our audience is that big.

    Unless there are publicly disclosed traffic stats on netmail flowing through fidonet, we'll never quite know.

    You could do some tests, sending encrypted and non-encrypted routed netmails through the net. But you will have to find volunteer destinations in all far away corners of the nodelist. ;)

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/360 to Wilfred van Velzen on Mon Jan 6 21:01:13 2020
    On 06.01.2020 19:23, Wilfred van Velzen : August Abolins :

    You could do some tests, sending encrypted and non-encrypted routed
    netmails through the net. But you will have to find volunteer
    destinations in all far away corners of the nodelist. ;)
    I may need to set up my Golded to send encrypted netmail, Thunderbird does not allow encrypted mail to "news" netmail...

    'Tommi

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.3.1
    * Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/360 to Wilfred van Velzen on Tue Jan 7 01:38:14 2020
    On 1/6/2020 12:23 PM, between "Wilfred van Velzen : August Abolins":

    You could do some tests, sending encrypted and non-
    encrypted routed netmails through the net. But you will
    have to find volunteer destinations in all far away corners
    of the nodelist. ;)

    For starters, the ENC flag seems to be flown in Z2 systems only. So, it
    is unlikely that anyone in Z1 would like to participate. But it could
    be interesting which non-ENC systems let the messages pass through.

    Nah.. best to stick with known systems that show ENC.

    --- Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228)
    * Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/360 to Tommi Koivula on Tue Jan 7 04:05:02 2020
    On 1/6/2020 2:01 PM, between "Tommi Koivula : Wilfred van Velzen":

    Hi Tommi,

    I may need to set up my Golded to send encrypted netmail,
    Thunderbird does not allow encrypted mail to "news"
    netmail...

    Actually, there *may* be a way to do that entirely within TB.

    I posted two test replies in the pkey_drop. One to Wilfred, and one to
    you.

    Let me know if it worked or not.

    ../|ug

    --- Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228)
    * Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/360 to August Abolins on Tue Jan 7 09:33:16 2020
    I posted two test replies in the pkey_drop. One to Wilfred, and one
    to you.

    The one to me was encrypted only for youself. Very secret. :)

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.3.1
    * Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to August Abolins on Tue Jan 7 10:38:44 2020
    Hi August,

    On 2020-01-07 01:38:14, you wrote to me:

    You could do some tests, sending encrypted and non-
    encrypted routed netmails through the net. But you will
    have to find volunteer destinations in all far away corners
    of the nodelist. ;)

    For starters, the ENC flag seems to be flown in Z2 systems only.

    Your right. Strange... Maybe they are filtered from the segments before they make it in the published nodelist?

    So, it is unlikely that anyone in Z1 would like to participate.

    I wouldn't draw that conclusion just from what is in the nodelist. ;)

    But it could be interesting which non-ENC systems let the messages
    pass through.

    That's the whole purpose of the test: Find out which systems on "all" possible routes still filter/bounce encrypted netmail.

    Nah.. best to stick with known systems that show ENC.

    It isn't the destinations we are testing but the systems along the routes...

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12 to August Abolins on Tue Jan 7 08:10:11 2020
    Re: enc + netmail
    By: August Abolins to Tommi Koivula on Tue Jan 07 2020 04:05:02


    I posted two test replies in the pkey_drop. One to Wilfred, and
    one to you.

    please remember that PKEY_DROP is only for posting public keys... i've not posted the rules in here or there since my previous system died and i stood this one up in its place... encrypted and/or signed messsges are allowed in this echo... AFAIK, this is the only echo that allows such ;)

    thanks


    )\/(ark
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR (1:3634/12)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/360 to Tommi Koivula on Tue Jan 7 16:09:54 2020
    On 1/7/2020 2:33 AM, between "Tommi Koivula : August Abolins":

    I posted two test replies in the pkey_drop. One to Wilfred, and one
    to you.

    The one to me was encrypted only for youself. Very secret. :)

    Thanks for the report. Obviously my workaround is a big fail.

    --- Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228)
    * Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to mark lewis on Tue Jan 7 18:12:00 2020
    Hello mark!

    ** 07.01.20 - 08:10, mark lewis wrote to August Abolins:

    I posted two test replies in the pkey_drop. One to Wilfred, and
    one to you.

    please remember that PKEY_DROP is only for posting public keys...

    Noted. But the other 2 guys started it over there! LOL


    ..AFAIK, this is the only echo that allows such ;)

    It's nice to have a pgp gpg discussion/test area to serve the fidonet demographic.



    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.42
    * Origin: Key ID = 0x5789589B (2:221/1.58)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to August Abolins on Sat Jan 25 21:42:27 2020
    Hi August,

    On 2020-01-25 18:46:39, you wrote to mark lewis:

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: SHA256

    On 07/01/2020 8:10 a.m., mark lewis : August Abolins wrote:

    encrypted and/or signed messsges are allowed in this echo...
    AFAIK, this is the only echo that allows such

    I recently updated my Win7 pc to TB 68 + the corresponding
    Enigmail/GPG plugin.

    But signed clear-text email seems to be rolling out with:

    gpg command line and output:
    C:\Program Files\gnupg\bin\gpg.exe
    gpg: invalid armor header: Â \r\n
    gpg: invalid armor header: Â \r\n


    Signed clear-text messages from other people in this echo look good
    and process properly.

    So, I am testing one originating from this new TB68/Enigmail combo to
    see if the "invalid armor header" is a problem here.

    I'd hate to roll back TB. But maybe all I have to do is rollback the Enigmail plugin version?


    - --
    Quoted with Reformator/Quoter. Info = https://tinyurl.com/sxnhuxc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

    iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEE0OsqKVIE8xZ+slA87w6JZVeJWJsFAl4scOIACgkQ7w6JZVeJ WJugNQf/TcvM1zQJi8hN42CQDCtsTbX0hu2B/Smg3k/zy6aCB5FabIRGxgQCt3C0 yROmIvUpLLwQQ8MMwzYqQfvb25ifmt1NwCNHl2sPSQVeIUQPaU/6PNeikgSNhmXH w7SxK7upP17sAjIY3sG+lOto2S6HgDtt8MVyZrbr4BAUK6EfG475oTsKgo3jezTc ALa2W3tVByYS6TlnvuyqEFJkbShw6ddl+lIclYsK3A8B0y4S+rOLlklUyloUbVY1 u4BBpQAyWXzwLb9Mfm7W/X0pcCzlxCEtn4RXblMg9o7UnVNviYupc31HbLCAo/FO 61EYIA3M6lOe/QCfx6jk62qF+xFNLg==
    =iByN
    -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

    I'm getting:

    gpg: Signature made za 25 jan 2020 17:46:26 CET using RSA key ID 5789589B
    gpg: BAD signature from "August Abolins <august@kolico.ca>" [unknown]

    On this one...

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)