• test

    From August Abolins@2:221/360 to All on Thu Jan 2 02:27:10 2020
    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: SHA256

    test

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
    Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

    iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEE0OsqKVIE8xZ+slA87w6JZVeJWJsFAl4NONkACgkQ7w6JZVeJ WJuM6Qf/SH2d3WYB4KfzXqoZAAa5cf/pzSKl40f7s2jPs9rnw57HOYb8SLAG+ttx 5fpBLO2V3BWyYUXn2bY6KKIiI9gmjXuC9FP2JtkXPeV39LR8yeu2Ea1iWS/AI7jF GPNocdfYGbeOHSsDW/82HYygiT69DbLPUXGLn4ujAzpiHgbRDNqEidtJQdKfEG3z UZfw3L71uZCAK2tnaPTBsBle0y1r1cO+ZzMcBEU3SAOA2MekrJDrpWq1q67Z0ymq UfrN6PtrPlSOjpGg+8Jh1BMr4xXCQwYeTPiZrEO6lduKO2cyIOimlOXO8nJK1vUi U1l/zoz/KMbROMTYeJfdcc0FpWGLaA==
    =8I23
    -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

    --- Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228)
    * Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to August Abolins on Fri Jan 3 12:52:36 2020
    Hi August,

    On 2020-01-02 02:27:10, you wrote to All:

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: SHA256

    test

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
    Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

    iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEE0OsqKVIE8xZ+slA87w6JZVeJWJsFAl4NONkACgkQ7w6JZVeJ WJuM6Qf/SH2d3WYB4KfzXqoZAAa5cf/pzSKl40f7s2jPs9rnw57HOYb8SLAG+ttx 5fpBLO2V3BWyYUXn2bY6KKIiI9gmjXuC9FP2JtkXPeV39LR8yeu2Ea1iWS/AI7jF GPNocdfYGbeOHSsDW/82HYygiT69DbLPUXGLn4ujAzpiHgbRDNqEidtJQdKfEG3z UZfw3L71uZCAK2tnaPTBsBle0y1r1cO+ZzMcBEU3SAOA2MekrJDrpWq1q67Z0ymq UfrN6PtrPlSOjpGg+8Jh1BMr4xXCQwYeTPiZrEO6lduKO2cyIOimlOXO8nJK1vUi U1l/zoz/KMbROMTYeJfdcc0FpWGLaA==
    =8I23
    -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

    wilfred@wilnux5:~/tmp> gpg --verify aug.msg
    gpg: Signature made do 02 jan 2020 01:27:05 CET using RSA key ID 5789589B
    gpg: Can't check signature: No public key

    wilfred@wilnux5:~/tmp> gpg --recv-keys 5789589B
    gpg: requesting key 5789589B from hkp server keys.gnupg.net
    gpgkeys: key 5789589B not found on keyserver
    gpg: no valid OpenPGP data found.
    gpg: Total number processed: 0

    So where can we get your key?

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/360 to Wilfred van Velzen on Fri Jan 3 16:07:45 2020
    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: SHA256

    On 1/3/2020 6:52 AM, between "Wilfred van Velzen : August Abolins":

    Hello Wilfred!

    wilfred@wilnux5:~/tmp> gpg --verify aug.msg
    gpg: Signature made do 02 jan 2020 01:27:05 CET using RSA key ID 5789589B gpg: Can't check signature: No public key

    wilfred@wilnux5:~/tmp> gpg --recv-keys 5789589B
    gpg: requesting key 5789589B from hkp server keys.gnupg.net
    gpgkeys: key 5789589B not found on keyserver
    gpg: no valid OpenPGP data found.
    gpg: Total number processed: 0

    So where can we get your key?

    I just got started with this. I am not completely familiar how to use OpenPGP/Enigmail.

    The following should be the right key for ID 5789589B

    - -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----

    mQENBF4NOFYBCADa6gPUjpNmqWt5V5JehfGduti7TXWtfijFPrxYudCE1jleIlUw vThPsd6pX3o2KR/JkZEHpP9e1tkoUwNdOPUe1+OSkQAnr4BGbquMqE5Y79keRvAE y8CD/CzmioEZ9ij60lcu41ug3BfdDXMfubeld5dLFjsK9QySgjtztPN2m4cTpuuU 9m5bTIS5fhiHimivNgKSK2G1MAJdoR06oSEQ2SGNA8oJHeVuGMCvw/PpexzGUyeP rgmXiTvoTacX59ZuJIybNL/orUSdZmLDXGQWQ4lwmysITEOaJY5jHl3PU6+iNSF4 9L/FNQAYsOTDytzYwTwAxD77/CQI09QK1lrvABEBAAG0LEF1Z3VzdCBBYm9saW5z IDxhdWd1c3RAUl9FX01fT19WX0Vrb2xpY28uY2E+iQFUBBMBCAA+FiEE0OsqKVIE 8xZ+slA87w6JZVeJWJsFAl4NOFYCGyMFCQlmAYAFCwkIBwIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwEC HgECF4AACgkQ7w6JZVeJWJucNwf+LmtJMmG5KFbB41k6hLXMSAQw0CFD+RFCsOyB HneBQ4cU8wFYSDZPha4giP/TbbiC1WzutO2/C+rfy3k6N1yeFla2/mVY+xGlC9x5 dkHvfkwEKfrAt4OMIAf/5Qrq/t6wjiguYRpDA6hsniDetTxjcvJJLjG4o8DgjkNx fnx4TXLVMosYELZJvEHkdUJwaU8iGZ9Pz9Z9Wpt7aewTV56cPm7tQTIQbEYOq1W8 YS1ASlfvRW0qoofZG7FH62WoCSV10I83QTilEAjtVsw/0chqrpHk1cH/u38xZYAh jGY4ocbCPilxw3mbGYBFScfBWRYYyCpFjkS/tg4QiI5e6G5aprkBDQReDThWAQgA 0kNKgT7LsfDHn7d8Ai599CvunawaEDQHCNXIEdTT0qrnyFmzV4NT2gm+G8rLbhAB wayXgO73LC+03tikuZhR2HFnrkgprP2ZmjZRyaqB4nC7SC9YRm5EwJ//HrYPL7Kz uChT2r0F38cViZxSZFLG8PCwn3P6mIUZrZfhQx3EE2B8sIUlv4b8VMgCp+rKo0aM s1VyBhuieRmChYbH/w1UxFJrdCD0h5mTpIoUgxGVaV/6x23DnAtq+EpKj6n17cdU zpEOMh9a6O5xCpzmBcH9fv0IuKIHI575ktJTIm4Dx4Y/6lEZ+X3QilGXErjDFGjz QRJ6uW5XmUJ0RtmcsmWVWQARAQABiQE8BBgBCAAmFiEE0OsqKVIE8xZ+slA87w6J ZVeJWJsFAl4NOFYCGwwFCQlmAYAACgkQ7w6JZVeJWJtEfwgAr6j/kJsuhJgpO0q+ DZPnrD3wfX97UHsJP3wNvRm0YiZKlNxYOBoUjop1fdyxIDGMAhuHi9WgN208LaAi diEZLaUJtiU+BfewkLjZV4xmt/GHP2TrMUogsrXP1jhkotWEH/TBReNYe+cJ4fcx C3xxheldYbSN9Jf01aowtjXb/7Lbw6RFk1m8tNDS1DDAzthmxBZ1z0PwCRKVho29 3lFvyMCesmbZgYROluCunYHgFQt2Bw4PPodWiHlrdqt4uA0Ptneiy/5Qb1t9qtdc yap1//5Omg+OKAjZJS8sSM40k1M23rKQ+jadqOOLSBAJ/hwXcKtnhWRSDxdw4k8w
    YjG6yA==
    =fbxl
    - -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
    Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

    iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEE0OsqKVIE8xZ+slA87w6JZVeJWJsFAl4PSqoACgkQ7w6JZVeJ WJtviQgAziOcU9rSwJ7L36pN59reZbMfdWLegV5AP4uAxN4c5yie8E2qMXWiGMfl d1MuwlAeTkckRsLE8iNpWx5kfzUICbTUqzCHqaKrc8iT1AnVI6Naen1ZkNEuQcNy xdBvU1uEJfnRkxNJ8Pna4YQI1Mehat2pmyDv/TWGNylfTUhEsumNzTIVPozZnzM7 VUtDpl/KEaU3yIO3vmTHZ+FrRDgJ8MYWbbb/LdWqzN/GgF6QCZheA5XP92vmtmS0 8yjaXwixd8ITOQg0xxV4dj/d8qcQwb9L6IE+RjqLosiynt2fbPuRWZA60K8ZRyOG LSTtElqg3/yY9SvaLUpDRynqN4iPOA==
    =mgJh
    -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

    --- Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228)
    * Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to August Abolins on Fri Jan 3 16:02:18 2020
    Hi August,

    On 2020-01-03 16:07:45, you wrote to me:

    So where can we get your key?

    I just got started with this. I am not completely familiar how to use OpenPGP/Enigmail.

    The following should be the right key for ID 5789589B

    - -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----

    I can now verify your message had a correct signature made with this key:

    wilfred@wilnux5:~/tmp> gpg --import aug.key
    gpg: key 5789589B: public key "August Abolins <august@R_E_M_O_V_Ekolico.ca>" imported
    gpg: Total number processed: 1
    gpg: imported: 1 (RSA: 1)
    wilfred@wilnux5:~/tmp> gpg --verify aug.msg
    gpg: Signature made vr 03 jan 2020 15:07:38 CET using RSA key ID 5789589B
    gpg: Good signature from "August Abolins <august@R_E_M_O_V_Ekolico.ca>" [unknown]
    gpg: WARNING: This key is not certified with a trusted signature!
    gpg: There is no indication that the signature belongs to the owner. Primary key fingerprint: D0EB 2A29 5204 F316 7EB2 503C EF0E 8965 5789 589B

    The trust thing is sort of an issue. I can't just sign your key (technically I could of course), because I can't verify it's really you. Anyone could login to
    Tommy's nntp server as 'August Abolins'. and "fake" email addresses are also easy to create/get. And since you are not a node we can't even exchange some crash netmails...


    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/360 to Wilfred van Velzen on Fri Jan 3 18:20:39 2020
    On 03/01/2020 10:02 a.m., Wilfred van Velzen : August Abolins wrote:

    Hello Wilfred!

    I can now verify your message had a correct signature made with
    this key:

    wilfred@wilnux5: ~/tmp> gpg -- import aug.key gpg: key
    5789589B: public key "August Abolins
    <august@R_E_M_O_V_Ekolico.ca>" imported gpg: Total number
    processed: 1 gpg: imported: 1 (RSA: 1) wilfred@wilnux5

    Cool! I still have to learn how to do that here.

    I have used the pgp signing process in the long ago past, but now and I am rusty and have only begun figuring out "the process" to use in this new environment.

    I like the Enigmail/OpenPGP integration in Thunderbird.

    When pgp first came out found, I found it fascinating. I immediately wondered why *wouldn't* anyone want to use it on a regular basic for email exchanges. But at that time, using it required complex extra manual steps - especially for
    decrypting. Looks like this TB/OpenPGP/Enigmail integration can decrypt automatically.

    But email became a horrible monster filled with html codes, graphics, and many fancy things that people have been mesmerized with. It would be too inconvenient to decrypt that each and every time, I guess.

    I think my old public key is still out there. (I have not really looked for it though. I don't remember the servers I used.) The private key is probably still
    on a 3┬╜ diskette, somewhere.


    The trust thing is sort of an issue. I can't just sign your key (technically I could of course), because I can't verify it's
    really you. Anyone could login to Tommy's nntp server
    as 'August Abolins'. and "fake" email addresses are also easy
    to create/get. And since you are not a node we can't even
    exchange some crash netmails...

    Well.. there *is* the email clue above. ;) A few email exchanges, and the analysis of the headers could be one way to get confidence whether the email I claim to use above is really me or suspicious.

    There is still a trust issue in this whole process for sure. At least one other
    person who could actually vouch that I am who I am would be needed.

    W.r.t nntp, another "August Abolins" could come from many different outside systems. True. But since registering on Tommi's system requires human intervention, I don't think he would permit another me to register on his system with exactly the same FN LN. So, technically you could be confident that
    once you grab my public key from here, future correspondences are from "the August Abolins originally seen on Tommi's system." ? :)

    As a minimum, if Tommi were to sign my key, (since my messages are originating on *his* system, and we can be sure that he's the *real deal* operating his *own* system, and I had to be registered manually to have access) then that would be a nice vote of confidence.

    There is another verification process I can suggest. I'll cover that later. And maybe I'll encrypt that message! <G>

    Cheers!
    ../|ug

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1
    * Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to August Abolins on Fri Jan 3 18:27:28 2020
    Hi August,

    On 2020-01-03 18:20:39, you wrote to me:

    I can now verify your message had a correct signature made with
    this key:

    wilfred@wilnux5: ~/tmp> gpg -- import aug.key gpg: key
    5789589B: public key "August Abolins
    <august@R_E_M_O_V_Ekolico.ca>" imported gpg: Total number
    processed: 1 gpg: imported: 1 (RSA: 1) wilfred@wilnux5

    Cool! I still have to learn how to do that here.

    This was done by hand. I exported the message from golded to a file. Imported the key from it, and then did the verify as the commands show...

    I have used the pgp signing process in the long ago past, but now and
    I am rusty and have only begun figuring out "the process" to use in
    this new environment.

    There are configuration lines in my golded config to do gpg/pgp functions, but I can't remember when I last used them. Maybe never...

    I like the Enigmail/OpenPGP integration in Thunderbird.

    When pgp first came out found, I found it fascinating.

    Me too.

    I immediately wondered why *wouldn't* anyone want to use it on a
    regular basic for email exchanges.

    And in fidonet some systems wouldn't allow encrypted routed netmail messages to
    pass their systems... I remember there was a lot of discussion going on about that at the time.

    I think my old public key is still out there. (I have not really
    looked for it though. I don't remember the servers I used.)

    Afaik most key-servers are connected to each other these days, and exchange keys on a regular basis. So if your key is out there, it might be "everywhere".
    ;)

    When I search for "abolins" on my (default) key-server it finds 27 keys as old as from 1994. But none include a mention of "august".

    The private key is probably still on a 3┬╜ diskette, somewhere.

    I have a lot of them still around (mainly Amiga formatted). Haven't tried them in a few decades, and it would surprise me if they are still readable. ;)

    The trust thing is sort of an issue. I can't just sign your key
    (technically I could of course), because I can't verify it's
    really you. Anyone could login to Tommy's nntp server
    as 'August Abolins'. and "fake" email addresses are also easy
    to create/get. And since you are not a node we can't even
    exchange some crash netmails...

    Well.. there *is* the email clue above. ;) A few email exchanges, and
    the
    analysis of the headers could be one way to get confidence whether the email I claim to use above is really me or suspicious.

    It would establish some trust I suppose. ;)

    It would have helped if we already had email exchanges before this conversation
    about keys though! ;)

    There is still a trust issue in this whole process for sure. At least
    one other person who could actually vouch that I am who I am would be needed.

    That would help!

    W.r.t nntp, another "August Abolins" could come from many different outside systems. True. But since registering on Tommi's system
    requires human intervention, I don't think he would permit another me
    to register on his system with exactly the same FN LN. So, technically
    you could be confident that once you grab my public key from here,
    future correspondences are from "the August Abolins originally seen on Tommi's system." ? :)

    As a minimum, if Tommi were to sign my key, (since my messages are originating on *his* system, and we can be sure that he's the *real deal* operating his *own* system, and I had to be registered manually to have access) then that would be a nice vote of confidence.

    That would help. I already have Tommi's key(s):

    wilfred@wilnux5:~/tmp> gpg -kv koivula
    gpg: using PGP trust model
    gpg: NOTE: signature key 2442E762 expired di 03 dec 2019 11:00:00 CET
    gpg: NOTE: signature key 2442E762 expired di 03 dec 2019 11:00:00 CET
    gpg: NOTE: signature key 2442E762 expired di 03 dec 2019 11:00:00 CET
    pub 1024R/2442E762 2015-11-20 [revoked: 2019-12-02]
    uid [ revoked] Tommi Koivula <sysop@f10.n221.z2.fidonet.fi>
    uid [ revoked] Tommi Koivula <sysop@rbb.bbs.fi>
    uid [ revoked] Tommi Koivula <root@tkk.iki.fi>
    sub 1024R/B8627807 2015-11-20 [revoked: 2019-12-02]

    gpg: can't handle public key algorithm 22
    gpg: can't handle public key algorithm 18
    pub 4096R/56CDF35B 2017-10-27 [revoked: 2019-12-29]
    uid [ revoked] Tommi Koivula <tommi@rbb.fidonet.fi>
    uid [ revoked] Tommi Koivula <tommi@fidonet.fi>
    uid [ revoked] Tommi Koivula <tommi.koivula@f10.n221.z2.fidonet.fi>
    sub 4096R/3ECEC94C 2017-10-27 [revoked: 2019-12-29]

    pub 4096R/B1F9FF53 2017-06-16 [expires: 2023-09-10]
    uid [ unknown] Tommi Koivula <0405009611@koivula.iki.fi>
    uid [ revoked] Tommi Koivula <tommi@koivula.iki.fi>
    uid [ unknown] Tommi Koivula <root@koivula.iki.fi>
    uid [ unknown] Tommi Koivula <0407680500@koivula.iki.fi>
    uid [ revoked] Tommi Koivula <o4o5oo9611@elisanet.fi>
    sub 4096R/7289F937 2017-06-16 [expires: 2023-09-10]

    And I can already exchange (crash) netmail with him on a secure binkp connection (we have a link).

    There is another verification process I can suggest. I'll cover that later. And maybe I'll encrypt that message! <G>

    Cliffhanger! ;)

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/360 to Wilfred van Velzen on Fri Jan 3 22:02:34 2020
    On 03/01/2020 12:27 p.m., Wilfred van Velzen : August Abolins wrote:

    I think my old public key is still out there. (I have not
    really looked for it though. I don't remember the servers I
    used.)

    The one at MIT (which sounds like where I would have submitted my key) but fails with this:

    --[begin]--
    Proxy Error

    The proxy server received an invalid response from an upstream server.
    The proxy server could not handle the request GET /pks/lookup.

    Reason: Error reading from remote server
    --[end]--

    I didn't expect that from the great MIT.


    Afaik most key-servers are connected to each other these days,
    and exchange keys on a regular basis. So if your key is out
    there, it might be "everywhere".

    Yes.. I notice that keys are now pooled and distributed to other servers. Things have certainly changed since I first started with PGP in the 90's.

    I looked with a few listed here: https://sks-keyservers.net/status/


    When I search for "abolins" on my (default) key-server it finds
    27 keys as old as from 1994. But none include a mention
    of "august".

    Are they *all* from 1994? 1994 sounds about right when I actually submitted to a server. I found about the same number of references to abolins as you at a few random servers from the sks link above. I am surprised that I wouldn't have included my FN. I wonder if the last entry in one of those searches could be it!

    pub 512R/246249F7 1994-02-16

    The DATE and bit size certainly looks right. 1994 is about the last time I actually used pgp. And, I am pretty sure the key signature was small before I learned about the benefits of larger ones.


    The private key is probably still on a 3S diskette, somewhere.

    I have a lot of them still around (mainly Amiga formatted).
    Haven't tried them in a few decades, and it would surprise me
    if they are still readable.


    This is what I did with a bunch of 3 1/2 diskettes a few years ago:

    http://kolico.ca/fidonet/echos/win95/index.html#diskettes



    As an aside: I like the "status" page at https://sks-keyservers.net/status/

    It would be fun to see a similar live version of something like that for the modest 900 IP nodes. ..But I digress.

    Cheers!
    ../|ug

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1
    * Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/360 to Wilfred van Velzen on Fri Jan 3 22:12:32 2020
    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: SHA256


    Hi Wilfred.

    03 Jan 20 18:27:28, you wrote to August Abolins:

    There are configuration lines in my golded config to do gpg/pgp functions, but I can't remember when I last used them. Maybe never...

    I have (S)ign function set up in my GoldED. Nothing else. :)

    I like the Enigmail/OpenPGP integration in Thunderbird.

    As August said, Enigmail in Thunderbird is quite nice.

    And in fidonet some systems wouldn't allow encrypted routed netmail messages to pass their systems... I remember there was a lot of discussion going on about that at the time.

    Yes, there was a lot discussion in finnish echos too.

    ,U,ENC. :)

    As a minimum, if Tommi were to sign my key, (since my messages are

    I just signed the key of August. :)

    'Tommi



    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

    iQJFBAEBCAAvFiEESUTEY3HGTj5gd0IrNqcDHlbN81sFAl4PodQRHHRvbW1pQGZp ZG9uZXQuZmkACgkQNqcDHlbN81sjIQ/+PWiGAlGDFMcqXrm7mg51fs3kNEBQ4Pvq KwPuCMLod78kLkJzxtN2NNaYUDrwy89E+4dX+tjRn3Qb4Zcpg5CmbRPaG/EYm2pI /2+3zJxTecVQ99PvYDD7yOc+yPWXxtG01uoLeBoKc++270oZVIyRUlid/ChK4P4j 5h1l+BTWLO6IZrDoPngqLu+M5ZwS3ox9g+TbDD5J2sga5swFKPP6gV9Mg4fv65iT caHQjRNhdUG1+8v5W51qkM1wkBnP5/gkH4s5EpPOS2KhPurx3DYGc+1DdVFwU7Pp Vl9rjVCQMWBUIFTTsapwNIFEox32qSi6wsVW88MSGAvz6qPm9jZRnbBCEoC+VDg1 Hbt0RRLK7V5kuZrSK4R3Ja2YYqg8QIfHG6tVUlPYy+hZbIXB7d6FUJjE4VhHWAB0 5oOz9RuHg0XGbm1PSSTueOL2+tkzRkp9AF3YBA+BztByEzGmJUhovkcCD7/AShQJ DBl95YMMKmEfKsXWNf9XfGDD++ojXZn9Sfy75e7IcPN7a7qA5armenPSxfnq8cMh OtxLYnjGKRxWb0Sh0XkYu2I5fZdexQHdeCm4faxtmpDztrxza6usJ4cPjGv+YQWA +pK8s+/PMNPGLzM3OR+daTWQZsC0IvNXP9iRaHEUv8VhfYHnt8Zd6BnacacrtWmI
    ufoJKqsPeY8=
    =k731
    -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
    ---
    * Origin: - rbb.fidonet.fi - Finland - (2:221/360)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to August Abolins on Fri Jan 3 22:05:57 2020
    Hi August,

    On 2020-01-03 22:02:34, you wrote to me:

    The one at MIT (which sounds like where I would have submitted my key)
    but fails with this:

    --[begin]--
    Proxy Error

    The proxy server received an invalid response from an upstream server.
    The proxy server could not handle the request GET /pks/lookup.

    Reason: Error reading from remote server
    --[end]--

    I didn't expect that from the great MIT.

    I get the same error there...

    Afaik most key-servers are connected to each other these days,
    and exchange keys on a regular basis. So if your key is out
    there, it might be "everywhere".

    Yes.. I notice that keys are now pooled and distributed to other servers. Things have certainly changed since I first started with PGP in the 90's.

    I looked with a few listed here: https://sks-keyservers.net/status/

    You probably got the same results everywhere, because they are all synced. ;)

    When I search for "abolins" on my (default) key-server it finds
    27 keys as old as from 1994. But none include a mention
    of "august".

    Are they *all* from 1994?

    Nope, only the last one.

    This is the list I get:

    https://pgp.surfnet.nl/pks/lookup?search=abolins&fingerprint=on&op=index

    1994 sounds about right when I actually submitted to a server. I
    found about the same number of references to abolins as you at a few random servers from the sks link above. I am surprised that I wouldn't have included my FN. I wonder if the last entry in one of those
    searches could be it!

    pub 512R/246249F7 1994-02-16

    The DATE and bit size certainly looks right. 1994 is about the last time
    I
    actually used pgp. And, I am pretty sure the key signature was small
    before
    I learned about the benefits of larger ones.

    I get that same one in my list, but I don't think it's compatible with modern gpg2 that I use.
    I can import it from the keyserver:

    wilfred@wilnux5:~/tmp> gpg --recv-keys 246249F7
    gpg: requesting key 246249F7 from hkp server keys.gnupg.net
    gpg: key 246249F7: no user ID
    gpg: Total number processed: 1

    But afterwards it can't be listed:

    wilfred@wilnux5:~/tmp> gpg -kv 246249F7
    gpg: using PGP trust model
    gpg: can't handle public key algorithm 22
    gpg: can't handle public key algorithm 18
    gpg: error reading key: No public key

    This is what I did with a bunch of 3 1/2 diskettes a few years ago:

    http://kolico.ca/fidonet/echos/win95/index.html#diskettes

    You have too much time! ;)

    As an aside: I like the "status" page at https://sks-keyservers.net/status/

    It would be fun to see a similar live version of something like that
    for the modest 900 IP nodes. ..But I digress.

    Fun for some, but painfull for others: It would embarrass a lot of hosts, because it would show how bad their segments are maintained in the nodelist...


    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Tommi Koivula on Fri Jan 3 22:15:16 2020
    Hi Tommi,

    On 2020-01-03 22:12:32, you wrote to me:

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: SHA256

    There are configuration lines in my golded config to do gpg/pgp
    functions, but I can't remember when I last used them. Maybe never...

    I have (S)ign function set up in my GoldED. Nothing else. :)

    You will have to fix that though, because I get:

    wilfred@wilnux5:~/tmp> gpg --verify tommi.msg
    gpg: Signature made vr 03 jan 2020 21:19:32 CET using RSA key ID 56CDF35B
    gpg: Good signature from "Tommi Koivula <tommi@rbb.fidonet.fi>" [unknown]
    gpg: aka "Tommi Koivula <tommi@fidonet.fi>" [unknown]
    gpg: aka "Tommi Koivula <tommi.koivula@f10.n221.z2.fidonet.fi>"
    [unknown]
    gpg: WARNING: This key has been revoked by its owner!
    gpg: This could mean that the signature is forged.
    gpg: reason for revocation: No reason specified
    gpg: WARNING: This key is not certified with a trusted signature!
    gpg: There is no indication that the signature belongs to the owner. Primary key fingerprint: 4944 C463 71C6 4E3E 6077 422B 36A7 031E 56CD F35B

    ... on this message. So you are using a revoked key!?

    I just signed the key of August. :)

    And where is it? If it's only in your keyring, it's not very usefull for the rest of the world, that you signed it. ;)

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/360 to Wilfred van Velzen on Fri Jan 3 23:45:16 2020
    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: SHA256


    gpg: WARNING: This key has been revoked by its owner!
    gpg: This could mean that the signature is forged.
    gpg: reason for revocation: No reason specified
    gpg: WARNING: This key is not certified with a trusted signature!
    gpg: There is no indication that the signature belongs to the owner.
    Primary key fingerprint: 4944 C463 71C6 4E3E 6077 422B 36A7 031E 56CD F35B

    ... on this message. So you are using a revoked key!?

    Interesting.. Why is GPG using the revoked one, when there is a working one available... Hmm...

    I just signed the key of August. :)

    And where is it? If it's only in your keyring, it's not very usefull
    for the rest of
    the world, that you signed it. ;)

    It should have been uploaded to the keyserver.

    'Tommi

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

    iQFFBAEBCAAvFiEEQTJnraOsQBoYwCPS0ikymSpvgioFAl4PtiARHHRvbW1pQHJi Yi5iYnMuZmkACgkQ0ikymSpvgipG3gf7BX0gxT/n+klaHU3/Q7wlr6rdPULfwwYH s5UjuMXNY+eudix4C3nR4V9g7vaIOdkPJbLmkwl9P7sNMTUULXhLd/aK0WlHaQr6 11U9RYyQHxhjx7dhxENtDqmUMXAizCwO/YTukK1PjxItz6rsLKKpoJKO6KqcMFGD ZvlFvtMFFCkzBGYk23T+lx5fmYoG4CGpMGhpN6GBsJUtGkwLRWavXwBHfRg32L8s 1lhGmoO4lbG/CBO8q5o9G0eJia8+nddMYQR0Al2FJndwT7oqGrDbji0Y/K3Wtf1t RiKB4x1o6WSfLAbOxcd+x0uJ8UbZ79xTnCL+KJD65nW00q924zl8wQ==
    =kktI
    -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
    ---
    * Origin: - rbb.fidonet.fi - Finland - (2:221/360)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Tommi Koivula on Fri Jan 3 23:40:34 2020
    Hi Tommi,

    On 2020-01-03 23:45:16, you wrote to me:

    gpg: WARNING: This key has been revoked by its owner!
    gpg: This could mean that the signature is forged.
    gpg: reason for revocation: No reason specified
    gpg: WARNING: This key is not certified with a trusted signature!
    gpg: There is no indication that the signature belongs to the
    owner.
    Primary key fingerprint: 4944 C463 71C6 4E3E 6077 422B 36A7 031E 56CD
    F35B

    ... on this message. So you are using a revoked key!?

    Interesting.. Why is GPG using the revoked one, when there is a working
    one
    available... Hmm...

    I don't know. Maybe it's the default? (Can you set a default key?)

    This one had a valid signature from a valid key.

    I just signed the key of August. :)

    And where is it? If it's only in your keyring, it's not very usefull
    for the rest of
    the world, that you signed it. ;)

    It should have been uploaded to the keyserver.

    Of course! Got it... ;)

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/360 to Tommi Koivula on Sat Jan 4 01:58:21 2020
    On 1/3/2020 3:12 PM, between "Tommi Koivula : Wilfred van Velzen":

    And in fidonet some systems wouldn't allow encrypted routed
    netmail messages to pass their systems... I remember there
    was a lot of discussion going on about that at the time.

    Yes, there was a lot discussion in finnish echos too.

    , U, ENC. :)

    How is that supposed to be interpreted? The nodelist just says "node
    accepts inbound encrypted mail". And, is encrypted mail only supported *between* nodes that _both_ have ENC specified?


    As a minimum, if Tommi were to sign my key..
    I just signed the key of August. :)

    Cool. Thanks.

    ../|ug

    --- Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228)
    * Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/360 to Wilfred van Velzen on Sat Jan 4 03:17:03 2020
    On 1/3/2020 4:05 PM, between "Wilfred van Velzen : August Abolins":

    This is the list I get:


    https://pgp.surfnet.nl/pks/lookup?search=abolins&fingerprint=on&op=index

    Thank you for that. Yes, that list looks the same at the other servers
    that I tried. Syncing is working!


    I get that same one in my list, ..
    ..I can import it from the keyserver: ..
    But afterwards it can't be listed: ..

    If my original key has either expired or is no longer compatible with
    the newer PGP since then, that is probably a good thing.


    This is what I did with a bunch of 3 1/2 diskettes a few
    years ago: ..

    You have too much time! ;)

    It was something one could do rather mindlessly while watching TV. I
    actually had another pair of hands helping me. We went through that
    cubic foot of diskettes in less than 3 hours.


    As an aside: I like the "status" page at
    https://sks-keyservers.net/status/

    It would be fun to see a similar live version of something
    like that for the modest 900 IP nodes...But I digress.

    Fun for some, but painfull for others: It would embarrass a
    lot of hosts, because it would show how bad their segments
    are maintained in the nodelist...

    The squeaky wheel gets the grease. <g>

    There is another one that I first mentioned in FUTURE4FIDO in April:

    https://fido.net.wisc.edu/

    A version for Fidonet IP/BBS network status would be very cool. But I digress..

    ../|ug

    --- Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228)
    * Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/360 to Wilfred van Velzen on Sat Jan 4 10:04:46 2020
    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: SHA256


    On 04.01.2020 0:40, Wilfred van Velzen wrote:

    ... on this message. So you are using a revoked key!?

    Interesting.. Why is GPG using the revoked one, when there is a working
    one
    available... Hmm...

    I don't know. Maybe it's the default? (Can you set a default key?)

    In Golded setup I could use the exact fingerprint to choose the key instead of using the email address. "gpg.exe -o @file -u "tommi@fidonet.fi" --clearsign @tmpfile" apparently picked up the first one in the ring. The revoked one.

    This one had a valid signature from a valid key.

    Good.

    I just signed the key of August. :)

    And where is it? If it's only in your keyring, it's not very usefull
    for the rest of the world, that you signed it. ;)

    It should have been uploaded to the keyserver.

    Of course! Got it... ;)

    :)

    'Tommi


    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

    iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEE+hnho0Ro0laqZGpRFRvBesy+vdcFAl4QRx8ACgkQFRvBesy+ vdfR2gf/d7VV+DW/FbiyMyc7ZwPalNVUNzxj6n3MZ36qN6nZ43H6jisU156ofzQr rx9S6F9gM37D1qBax7DKY5UAXW5+iXbO14fnnKkZ84BuvVPhnDx+I4MO+xS/TB9n 1ZcjvP7IeCpj3Q4xHCVKTo9JdagDgdgBxyLqEWhLt3zRdtXrK+eb4el5EjQmXlau 7wF0yCFjVemvtlTsHksIm5qPqtkp2f4sf7MtWNy7Iuka+6EboCpYxICoCZe4IYMw X7SF053tn6206w4APjwUlRXI6zjFivukGCxQUHNLyC2Hjwd827Hvp7M9i6GQajUG B5s548qnJ84nbqGjHBq3SmQ792Da3A==
    =/0jo
    -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.3.1
    * Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/360 to August Abolins on Sat Jan 4 10:15:34 2020
    On 04.01.2020 1:58, August Abolins : Tommi Koivula :

    àWV>> And in fidonet some systems wouldn't allow encrypted routed
    àWV>> netmail messages to pass their systems... I remember there
    àWV>> was a lot of discussion going on about that at the time.

    àTK> Yes, there was a lot discussion in finnish echos too.

    àTK> ,U,ENC. :)

    How is that supposed to be interpreted?à The nodelist just says "node
    accepts inbound encrypted mail".à And, is encrypted mail only supported *between* nodes that _both_ have ENC specified?

    There is no nodelist flag that tells NOT to accept encrypted mail.

    So my node will accept encrypted mail and will forward it but you cannot know how the next hop treats it.

    Please test. :D

    'Tommi

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.3.1
    * Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to August Abolins on Sat Jan 4 21:57:12 2020
    Hi August,

    On 2020-01-04 20:08:43, you wrote to me:

    Btw: I'm using 'gpg' (2), which I think is more or less the
    standard software on linux to do (open)pgp stuff with.

    It is a very smart inclusion in linux. But I'll stick with a Windows offering. The Enigmail version, as an Add-On for Thunderbird, seems
    to be a smooth integration. The only thing I can't seem to check is
    which PGP version my Enigmail/GnuPG-generated key is using. But the
    linux tool can do that.

    You could for instance add: https://www.gpg4win.org/ to your windows setup, so you have a decent key management tool...

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Tommi Koivula on Sat Jan 4 21:58:53 2020
    Hi Tommi,

    On 2020-01-04 22:16:54, you wrote to me:

    Checking if my golded signing configuration works... ;)

    Works ok! However, using Thunderbird as a fidonet client does not show your from: name as it should. But it works. ;)

    Cool!

    Good to know it works. (But I won't be signing every message by default ;))

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Tommi Koivula on Sat Jan 4 22:00:27 2020
    Hi Tommi,

    On 2020-01-04 22:22:45, you wrote to me:

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- TK> Hash: SHA256

    I'm wondering why yours uses SHA256 and mine uses SHA1. SHA1 is the
    more compatibel one with older versions, but is less secure...

    Hmm.. No idea..

    You don't have anything in you gpg.conf ? Maybe thunderbird forces it?

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/360 to Wilfred van Velzen on Sun Jan 5 00:56:06 2020
    Hi Wilfred.

    04 Jan 20 23:45:04, you wrote to me:

    I'll sign this one with Golded.

    Still SHA256. It might have to do with the gpg version you are using. Mine
    is
    somewhat older:

    # gpg --version
    gpg (GnuPG) 2.0.24
    libgcrypt 1.6.1
    ...

    Maybe the default hash algorithme has change in newer versions?

    Perhaps.. In this Windows I'm using :

    === Cut ===

    gpg --version

    gpg (GnuPG) 2.2.19
    libgcrypt 1.8.5
    Copyright (C) 2019 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
    License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later <https://gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html> This is free software: you are free to change and redistribute it.
    There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law.

    Home: C:/Users/root/AppData/Roaming/gnupg
    Tuetut algoritmit:
    JulkAvain: RSA, ELG, DSA, ECDH, ECDSA, EDDSA
    Salaus: IDEA, 3DES, CAST5, BLOWFISH, AES, AES192, AES256, TWOFISH,
    CAMELLIA128, CAMELLIA192, CAMELLIA256
    Tiiviste: SHA1, RIPEMD160, SHA256, SHA384, SHA512, SHA224
    Pakkaus: pakkaamaton, ZIP, ZLIB, BZIP2
    === Cut ===

    'Tommi

    PS. I hate when programs speak finnish, even if I have an english OS... :)

    ---
    * Origin: - rbb.fidonet.fi - Finland - (2:221/360)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/360 to August Abolins on Sun Jan 5 13:13:55 2020
    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: SHA512



    Meanhile, email is probably a more reliable option for really
    private messaging anyway.


    As long as you dont use Gmail. ;)

    'Tommi



    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

    iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEQTJnraOsQBoYwCPS0ikymSpvgioFAl4RxPQACgkQ0ikymSpv giqNlQf+LbMwBq2IlR9H2fsNJPuW7wZJpqZD3rIGveY2t+fRH+gsEwPhbcQJjlDf ZLIUl8KkjnIUErc7E8o4Gm78mLt/m1YQjXJaSHwHHBXU5+3+1riCkZQFDhLAIpWy tdYmyaqJwETk3HJhiuA++cMkg/Nur2QiFYMo1/qy4DPRGTeqSQvRSdXw8iiq4H0y heRIzYhgIggCVLTTnjZqNkPoSyWSHYLXOsQeb7qENs9ZX82UIe9jnpXlq0DVhTxE M6n2UkjVf5ZBSz37tuFPsXb2bFeFHDJz+yGGS0v9BzWX9jHcpsi/XTDJDhILRdOc xHrghBv1Ey19SijGaPzU21Kqlb8KmA==
    =0ILC
    -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.2.2
    * Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Tommi Koivula on Sun Jan 5 12:56:51 2020
    Hi Tommi,

    On 2020-01-05 00:56:06, you wrote to me:

    Maybe the default hash algorithme has change in newer versions?

    Perhaps.. In this Windows I'm using :

    Tuetut algoritmit:
    JulkAvain: RSA, ELG, DSA, ECDH, ECDSA, EDDSA
    Salaus: IDEA, 3DES, CAST5, BLOWFISH, AES, AES192, AES256, TWOFISH,
    CAMELLIA128, CAMELLIA192, CAMELLIA256
    Tiiviste: SHA1, RIPEMD160, SHA256, SHA384, SHA512, SHA224
    Pakkaus: pakkaamaton, ZIP, ZLIB, BZIP2

    There are some differences in my versions algorithms:

    Supported algorithms:
    Pubkey: RSA, ELG, DSA
    Cipher: IDEA, 3DES, CAST5, BLOWFISH, AES, AES192, AES256, TWOFISH,
    CAMELLIA128, CAMELLIA192, CAMELLIA256
    Hash: MD5, SHA1, RIPEMD160, SHA256, SHA384, SHA512, SHA224
    Compression: Uncompressed, ZIP, ZLIB, BZIP2

    But that doesn't show, what the defaults are, under what circumstances.

    PS. I hate when programs speak finnish, even if I have an english
    OS... :)

    Same here with Dutch! ;)

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to August Abolins on Sun Jan 5 13:25:22 2020
    Hi August,

    On 2020-01-04 21:40:00, you wrote to Tommi Koivula:

    Further, since there is no way for a user to know in advance how one
    U,ENC system routes their mail, and since there is no guarante what happens if a packet reaches a non-U,ENC system, there is no point in taking chances and causing annoyance. :(

    The worlds view/commonsense on transporting encrypted content has changed in the few decades since the discussion in fidonet about this! If it didn't internet banking wouldn't be possible for instance! ;-)

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/360 to Tommi Koivula on Sun Jan 5 17:17:01 2020
    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: SHA256

    On 1/5/2020 6:13 AM, between "Tommi Koivula : August Abolins":

    AA >> Meanhile, email is probably a more reliable option for
    AA >> really private messaging anyway.

    As long as you dont use Gmail. ;)


    https://support.google.com/mail/answer/6330403?hl=en

    So, maybe there is progress in that direction.

    If people did start using their S/MIME support (uses certificates? not
    keys?) they'd probably want to control or track the usage and sell the info/stats in order to monetize it.

    BTW.. I am really liking the Enigmail/GnuPG add-on for TB. The
    decrypting is automatic and the inline sig key blocks are "hidden" to
    provide a very clean reading/replying experience.


    ../|ug
    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
    Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

    iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEE0OsqKVIE8xZ+slA87w6JZVeJWJsFAl4R/ecACgkQ7w6JZVeJ WJuszggAu7do1rceBlMup6HQRZQgc8fg0UcfbAEB//QWBH9o5UlfdfCK93WxrFoG JJbfWX0/G+GF1RL/MGyvx+ggTEv+ByKbVP2xft+mNPs9Z3heJdeXgkFMaOQosmrj pcx2B9p7SYzrrkV9Z0VZQefvTqFD7gcuQsoWV7tgBiFYu8SCkPl3qvKrahB/bKBT 8bQU7+I05D5fQIjTp9aFa3brlUbJsg/m59+Lg6yyAw4uRWjVgci5OyFDZ2Ev779w OZl+dqKmpr6c1HDOPAjETlrigWvepmNHWPtbhl6m2eYEu5d7TdurCoyJUVOJF3KO Ugr/8aFWoBZnLqWo8BWL5dsV9iNFNw==
    =+553
    -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

    --- Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228)
    * Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)