• RE: Bush, torture, and stupidity.

    From Earl Croasmun@1:124/311 to Johnjwilson on Sat Jun 5 08:20:34 2010
    So he says to the world he approved of torture and would do it again...

    No, he didn't.

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  • From Ross Sauer@1:123/789 to Earl Croasmun on Sat Jun 5 13:11:20 2010
    "Earl Croasmun -> Johnjwilson" <1:124/311> wrote in news:30885$POL_INC@JamNNTPd:

    So he says to the world he approved of torture and would do it
    again...

    No, he didn't.

    Perhaps the only thing worse than a war criminal is an unrepentant one.
    And so it with Barack Obama's predecessor. Just months after former Vice President Dick Cheney boasted, "I was a big supporter of
    waterboarding," George W. Bush joined him by announcing, "I'd do it
    again."

    President Bush's endorsement of the use of waterboarding and other
    enhanced interrogation techniques against 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and other terrorism suspects came during an appearance before a business audience in Grand Rapids, Michigan. As CNN reported:

    "Yeah, we waterboarded Khalid Sheikh Mohammed," the former president
    said during an appearance at the Economic Club of Grand Rapids,
    Michigan, according to the Grand Rapids Press.

    "I'd do it again to save lives," he added.

    If that sounds familiar, it should. Back in February, Dick Cheney
    bragged to ABC's Jonathan Karl is almost the exact same terms:

    "I was a big supporter of waterboarding. I was a big supporter of the
    enhanced interrogation techniques..."

    And in that same interview, Cheney confirmed that the both Bush legal
    team that invented the spurious rationale for detainee torture and those implementing it were merely following orders:

    "The reason I've been outspoken is because there were some things being
    said, especially after we left office, about prosecuting CIA personnel
    that had carried out our counterterrorism policy or disbarring lawyers
    in the Justice Department who had -- had helped us put those policies
    together, and I was deeply offended by that, and I thought it was
    important that some senior person in the administration stand up and
    defend those people who'd done what we asked them to do."

    There are only two problems with the Bush-Cheney tag team defense of waterboarding.

    The first, of course, is that it didn't save lives. As ThinkProgress
    noted:

    Waterboarding Mohammed 183 times didn't save any lives. In fact,
    Mohammed told U.S. military officials that he gave false information to
    the CIA after withstanding torture. Additionally, a former Special
    Operations interrogator who worked in Iraq has stated that waterboarding
    has actually cost American lives: "The number of U.S. soldiers who have
    died because of our torture policy will never be definitively known, but
    it is fair to say that it is close to the number of lives lost on Sept.
    11, 2001."

    Just as important, with their admissions Bush and Cheney are in essence confessing to war crimes which the Obama administration is both morally
    and legally obligated to prosecute. As Scott Horton concluded in
    Harper's regarding Cheney's game of chicken:

    "What prosecutor can look away when a perpetrator mocks the law itself
    and revels in his role in violating it? Such cases cry out for
    prosecution. Dick Cheney wants to be prosecuted. And prosecutors should
    give him what he wants."

    Writing on February 15th, Professor Jonathan Turley lamented that
    President Obama had turned his back on the law:

    It is an astonishing public admission since waterboarding is not just
    illegal but a war crime. It is akin to the vice president saying that he supported bank robbery or murder-for-hire as a public policy.

    The ability of Cheney to openly brag about his taste for torture is the
    direct result of President Barack Obama blocking any investigation or prosecution of war crimes. For political reasons, Obama and Attorney
    General Eric Holder have refused to carry out our clear obligations
    under international law to prosecute for such waterboarding. Indeed,
    before taking office, various high-ranking officials stated that both
    Obama and Holder assured them that they would not allow such
    prosecutions. While they denied it at the time, those accounts are
    consistent with their actions following inauguration.

    Sadly, Turley has it exactly right. During his confirmation hearings,
    Attorney General Eric Holder unequivocally declared, "waterboarding is torture." But Holder also reassured Republicans that "we don't want to criminalize policy differences that might exist" with the outgoing Bush
    White House. And even after releasing the Bush torture team legal memos, President Obama agreed with Holder's restatement of the classic GOP "criminalization of politics" defense:

    "In releasing these memos, it is our intention to assure those who
    carried out their duties relying in good faith upon legal advice from
    the Department of Justice that they will not be subject to
    prosecution...

    This is a time for reflection, not retribution. I respect the strong
    views and emotions that these issues evoke. We have been through a dark
    and painful chapter in our history. But at a time of great challenges
    and disturbing disunity, nothing will be gained by spending our time and
    energy laying blame for the past."

    Nothing, that is, but the preservation of the rule of law.

    (This piece also appears at Perrspectives.)

    UPDATE: On his web site, Jonathan Turley today reacted to Bush's
    pronouncement by lamenting that "Because it would have been politically unpopular to prosecute people for torture, the Obama Administration has
    allowed officials to downgrade torture from a war crime to a talking
    point."

    http://tinyurl.com/36688pw

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  • From Ed Hulett@1:123/789 to Ross Sauer on Sat Jun 5 15:04:22 2010
    On 06/05/2010 10:11 AM, Ross Sauer -> Earl Croasmun wrote:
    "Earl Croasmun -> Johnjwilson" <1:124/311> wrote in news:30885$POL_INC@JamNNTPd:

    So he says to the world he approved of torture and would do it
    again...

    No, he didn't.

    Someone else's words snipped...

    http://tinyurl.com/36688pw

    If you think BHO the One has turned away from enhanced interrogations, you are being mislead by his propaganda machine. Just like he hasn't closed Gitmo, he hasn't stopped EI.

    Ed

    --
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  • From Ross Sauer@1:123/789 to Ed Hulett on Sat Jun 5 17:05:36 2010
    "Ed Hulett -> Ross Sauer" <1:123/789.0> wrote in news:30891
    $POL_INC@JamNNTPd:

    So he says to the world he approved of torture and would do it
    again...

    No, he didn't.

    Someone else's words snipped...

    http://tinyurl.com/36688pw

    If you think BHO the One has turned away from enhanced interrogations,
    you are being mislead by his propaganda machine. Just like he hasn't closed Gitmo, he hasn't stopped EI.

    I haven't seen any evidence the torture has continued, (and that is what
    your bureaucratese-named "enhanced interrogation" is,) however, if it is,
    I'd like to know why, and by who. SPECIFICALLY.

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