DAVE DRUM wrote to WAYNE CHIRNSIDE <=-

WAYNE CHIRNSIDE wrote to DAVE DRUM <=-

They've been dancing all around this since day 10 and apparently not
seen the forest for the trees!

Everything they need is already on site.

It's the merged synthesis of the two methods they've tried up to now.

But it's BETTER.
Way better due to the advantage given by the difference between the circumferences of the pipe and the open dome with drilling mud
contained within.

Just as a lever gives mechanical advantage to force so too
does the differences in area do the same in regards to hydraulic force.

Too simple!
Too obvious.
Everyone is looking for the complex and complicated but the template
for the solution exists in a garage mechanics lift.

Lets see ANYONE shoot holes into this!

Even if they can't they will attack you personally, you old lefty
criminal biker dude, you. Bv)=

Ya I got that.

Honesty it seems has no place in the world.

I've been terribly naive the bulk of my life.

The BS traffic charge the mod posted was accompanied by my completely honest plea of
not guilty.

After the DUI I WAS guilty of some years later
the day after a cop assaulted my one love
and then put BS charges on her for merely defending her and our dog from assault
I never once drove again despite the fact the state dropped the ball
and did not file charges promptly.

In fact for two years in which time I renewed my drivers license as safe driver

but never the less never once drove again.

Regardless of my culpability of driving drunk on that occassion I realistically felt that the burden of being subjected to misconduct as I had been on
several previous occassions did not warrent whatever possible convenience
might have been had by retaining my drivers license.

Fact is I'd completed ALL the necessary steps to retain the license
but at the last with a mere $70 left to go on associated required paperwork
to keep license I let it go knowing I'd been targeted by this local force and would
never get a fair shake regardless of the horrific injustices that had previously
been done to me.

As in having been crippled for life, beaten without cause on previous occasion. Fact is people believe what they belive regardless of fact.

As if the police are some other species that can do no wrong.
Yeah right.
I KNOW better.
Wish it weren't so.

Despite the provocation with the police having once again intruded upon and essentially
having detroyed my and my girlfriends lives I DID drive irresponsably drunk and that was the LAST time I EVER drove period.

It took no ruling of the law to bring me to that.
Just self acknowledgement that I _could_ have seriously injured another.
Got lucky in that I did not.

The burden of driving a motorcycle where the police, at least in this community,
have no regard for the law can be as in my case extreme.

I recall upon first moving down here a cop charged for misconduct was
cleared after having shot a black man for merely running in jogging attire
in a predominently white neighborhood.
The ruling was suspician justified the shooting.

Yeah right, the black person was jogging in jogging attire in his own neighborhood
as he owned a home there.

This as reported in the Saint Petersburg Times.

I recall before going into the court room my attorney public defender Robert Surrette
essentially telling me
that the court room was more theater than fact.

It's a shame I didn't heed that reality more.

It could have saved me a good deal of grief later on.

Another case where the county settled out of court the police responding to a call
of a man with a gun in Pinellas Park FL. was shot at some 50 times by police. The _gun_?
Turned out to be a oil soaked sock he'd put over his hand in order to
drop the oil pan in his car or truck to change the oil.
Hit some 17 times or more inexplicably he survived.

Made the papers big time for a day or two.
County promptly settled.
Story promptly VANISHED.

For some reason I seem to rather acutely recall instances of police misconduct having been the victem of numerous occasions of same.


In regards to the oil spill:
Thinking it over again I'm not all that sure the cryogenic idea might not also be viable.

The drilling mud idea has a few parameters that could be altered with regards to confinement.

For one the containment dome MUST have greater mass than the combined mass of the drilling mud
so it doesn't lift off the well head.

But a dome over the well head containing drilling mud WOULD prevent the blowback
from the well from expelling the mud from the well pipe irregardless of whether or not
there was direct injection of drilling mud into the well.

That really is simple immutable physics.

In any case my current situation is relatively dire without getting into detail.

Which ever way it goes I must say I truely do not give a rats' ass anymore.

My country is divided and devisive.

Politics is essentially a media driven _reality_ TV show having as much in common
with reality as the rest of those so called reality shows.

I do not see any acountibility in either party in politics these days
and I am one who has crossed party lines never once believing in absolute adherence
to party affiliation as some here in this echo do.

It's the man or women and thier track record and not party affiliation that counts.

Again on the Gulf spill:
I did give your view some consideration as regards to glassifying the sea
bed however ground burst nuclear weapons are well known for having radioactive failout issues due to the exposure of exposed ground matter to intense radiation.

All in all that particular idea to me seems rather fraught with more risk than could be could be justified on the hope it might work.

OTOH the Russians HAVE done it successfully.

Who knows?

In any case the Gulf spill as it currently stands is an unmitigated environmental
disaster of the first order which will wreck havoc on the lifestyles and earning
potential of those who make their living on the Gulf Coast of the U.S. in all probability for
at least the next generation.

Very depressing.

Whoever comes up with a solution in the Gulf I'm all for them and whatever works.

Also I hope the U.S. manages to extract itself from the current three wars, Iraq,
Afganistan and Pakistan without too much more collateral damage and hopefully with a somewhat positive outcome.

I've really found the years since mid 2001 rather more stressfull
than any other I've ever experienced previously.

Oh well.
Going the way of Dan Ceppa as regards to fidonet soon to be out of here.

Eventually the way of Charles Angelich and Jay Emrie and other good friends
I met in a previously far more gentile fidonet.

Good friends they were along with a good many others that have either passed or dropped
by the wayside.

We really need to come together to resolve issues and problems
with SOLUTIONS rather
than to blame and accuse thinking that that is any kind of substitute
for rational approaches to issues and challenges facing us all.

But then my days of idealism are some past and I'm quite the cynic these days :-(

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ROSS CASSELL wrote to DAVE DRUM <=-

Hello Dave!

28 May 10 13:41, you wrote to WAYNE CHIRNSIDE:

Too obvious.
Everyone is looking for the complex and complicated but the
template for the solution exists in a garage mechanics lift.

Lets see ANYONE shoot holes into this!

Even if they can't they will attack you personally, you old lefty
criminal biker dude, you. Bv)=

Too bad no one from BP will read his suggestion.

But one CAN write to the head of the United States Dept of Energy.


So what exactly is your suggestion?

Any ideas?

Any at all?


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WAYNE CHIRNSIDE wrote to DAVE DRUM <=-

Everyone is looking for the complex and complicated but the template
for the solution exists in a garage mechanics lift.

Lets see ANYONE shoot holes into this!

Even if they can't they will attack you personally, you old lefty
criminal biker dude, you. Bv)=

Ya I got that.

Honesty it seems has no place in the world.

That doesn't stop the cum-stains. They operate under the Three Vs principle. Vilification, Vituperation, and Vengeance.

I've been terribly naive the bulk of my life.

Possibly ... but the rest of your personal history is stuff that I don't/didn't need to know.

After the DUI I WAS guilty of some years later
the day after a cop assaulted my one love

Etc.

Politics is essentially a media driven _reality_ TV show having as much
in common with reality as the rest of those so called reality shows.

By Jove, Bottomley, I think he's nailed it!!!

I do not see any acountibility in either party in politics these days
and I am one who has crossed party lines never once believing in
absolute adherence to party affiliation as some here in this echo do.

They *claim* that they are not Repuglicans - but, they sure sound like they support the failed policies and candidates of that side of the political spectrum.

"Political language -- and with variations this is true of all political parties, from Conservatives to Anarchists -- is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind." - George Orwell (1903 - 1950)

and this ...

"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith (1908 - 2006)

Or, as I call it - the politics of "GOTCHA!"

It's the man or women and thier track record and not party affiliation that counts.

Inzackly - which is why I remain independent of party affiliation and stick to a middle-of-the-road moderate political philosophy.

Again on the Gulf spill:
I did give your view some consideration as regards to glassifying the
sea bed however ground burst nuclear weapons are well known for having radioactive failout issues due to the exposure of exposed ground matter
to intense radiation.

All in all that particular idea to me seems rather fraught with more
risk than could be could be justified on the hope it might work.

Well, the residual radiation is the main problem. But, who knows - we might get some new and interesting shrimp or other species from all that sped up mutation. And the marketroids can go wild selling them.

OTOH the Russians HAVE done it successfully.

Let's have Sauer call up Putin and see if he can help out. After all, according to *his* stalkers he has plenty of time on his hands and has been known to speak with presidents and bitch slap celebrities.

(with tongue planted firmly in cheek) Bv)))=

ENJOY!!!

From Uncle Dirty Dave's Kitchen
Home of YAHOOOOAHHHH Hot Sauce & Hardin Cider



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Ed Hulett wrote to Ross Cassell <=-

Even if they can't they will attack you personally, you old lefty
criminal biker dude, you. Bv)=

Too bad no one from BP will read his suggestion.

I've been enjoying these guys talk like they're more informed than the engineers trying to stop the leak. As if the engineers are ignorant of hydraulics (hint: that's what they are using WRT to pumping drilling
mud and concrete down into the well). I really enjoyed WC and DD discussing using a tactical nuke to seal it off.

Sometimes, you know, the Emperor *IS* naked. If you enjoy the idea of using a tactical nuke so much, why don't you just go volunteer to swim down through all that valuable oil and place the device at the source of the leakage. Then stick around to set it off ... just to be sure it works as planned.

Now, watch them come back with "so. what's your suggestion?" as if BP needs suggestions from people who have no earthly clue about dealing
with a spewing oil well a mile under the surface of the Golf of Mexico.

The greedy bastards sure need something besides the hand-wringing bankrupt shit they have been doing. Oh, and BTW, I did say I had no idea of the conditions a mile down. So fucking what? Neither do you. Again, so fucking what? My idea or either of Wayne's has at least a good chance of working as what has been attempted thus far.

I won't ask for your suggestions as I consider you to be devoid of fresh ideas. Fiddle-dee-dee.

ENJOY!!!

From Uncle Dirty Dave's Kitchen
Home of YAHOOOOAHHHH Hot Sauce & Hardin Cider



... Yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their master's table.
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Hello WAYNE!

29 May 10 03:24, you wrote to me:

Too obvious.
Everyone is looking for the complex and complicated but the
template for the solution exists in a garage mechanics lift.

Lets see ANYONE shoot holes into this!

Even if they can't they will attack you personally, you old lefty
criminal biker dude, you. Bv)=

Too bad no one from BP will read his suggestion.

But one CAN write to the head of the United States Dept of Energy.

and have you, have they asked for your credentials yet?

==
Ross
Fidonet Feeds Or Fidonet In Your Newsreader: http://www.easternstar.info E-mail: ross(at)cassell(dot)us | Other Places: http://links.cassell.us
... Bigot: Anyone who's winning an argument with a Democrat.
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20060121
* Origin: The Eastern Star - Spartanburg, SC USA (1:123/456)

Too obvious.
Everyone is looking for the complex and complicated but the
template for the solution exists in a garage mechanics lift.

Lets see ANYONE shoot holes into this!

Even if they can't they will attack you personally, you old lefty
criminal biker dude, you. Bv)=

Too bad no one from BP will read his suggestion.

you might be surprised about that... they get thousands of suggestions and many
of them are the same as what their own people have come up with...

/me wonders if folk might be better off reading the content and viewing the videos available on the BP site rather than sitting here playing armchair quarterback without a clue :? :rolleyes:

)\/(ark


* Origin: (1:3634/12)

Now, watch them come back with "so. what's your suggestion?" as if
BP needs suggestions from people who have no earthly clue about
dealing with a spewing oil well a mile under the surface of the
Golf of Mexico.

uh... they /are/ taking suggestions from all points...

The claim that a $500,000 redundant switch would have somehow
stopped a hydraulic failure of the blow out preventer is making its
rounds of all the left-wing blogs and talking heads. It has passed
the left-wing gospel rule, so that's all they can point to as the
cause. What they can't square with that is the fact that shortly
before the well exploded, Obama's administration gave that well an
award for safely.

where is this award mentioned? i've not seen anything about it... since when does some presidential administration give awards for corporate operations or some part of a corporation's operations? don't they have better things to do...
like run the country??

)\/(ark


* Origin: (1:3634/12)

Hello mark!

29 May 10 11:25, you wrote to me:

Even if they can't they will attack you personally, you old lefty
criminal biker dude, you. Bv)=

Too bad no one from BP will read his suggestion.

you might be surprised about that... they get thousands of suggestions
and many of them are the same as what their own people have come up with...

I am sure the trained engineers have brain stormed alot of ideas, from silly to
sane.

Wonder if any thought of a nuke?

/me wonders if folk might be better off reading the content and
viewing the videos available on the BP site rather than sitting here playing armchair quarterback without a clue :? :rolleyes:

With the enthusiasm Wayne shows in his suggestions, one might ask him, if he has emailed the right people.

I still think his cryogenic idea was insane tho.. LOL

==
Ross
Fidonet Feeds Or Fidonet In Your Newsreader: http://www.easternstar.info E-mail: ross(at)cassell(dot)us | Other Places: http://links.cassell.us
... Bigot: Anyone who's winning an argument with a Democrat.
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20060121
* Origin: The Eastern Star - Spartanburg, SC USA (1:123/456)

ROSS CASSELL wrote to WAYNE CHIRNSIDE <=-

Hello WAYNE!

29 May 10 03:24, you wrote to me:

Too obvious.
Everyone is looking for the complex and complicated but the
template for the solution exists in a garage mechanics lift.

Lets see ANYONE shoot holes into this!

Even if they can't they will attack you personally, you old lefty
criminal biker dude, you. Bv)=

Too bad no one from BP will read his suggestion.

But one CAN write to the head of the United States Dept of Energy.

and have you, have they asked for your credentials yet?

One need not have credentials to cite Junior H.S. newtonian physics.


You OTOH were recently known in this very echo and for some years now
have been giving medical advice for such medical matters as stroke and flu.




... So easy, a child could do it. Child sold separately.
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
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DAVE DRUM wrote to ED HULETT <=-

Ed Hulett wrote to Ross Cassell <=-

Even if they can't they will attack you personally, you old lefty
criminal biker dude, you. Bv)=

Too bad no one from BP will read his suggestion.

I've been enjoying these guys talk like they're more informed than the engineers trying to stop the leak. As if the engineers are ignorant of hydraulics (hint: that's what they are using WRT to pumping drilling
mud and concrete down into the well). I really enjoyed WC and DD discussing using a tactical nuke to seal it off.

Sometimes, you know, the Emperor *IS* naked. If you enjoy the idea of using a tactical nuke so much, why don't you just go volunteer to swim down through all that valuable oil and place the device at the source
of the leakage. Then stick around to set it off ... just to be sure it works as planned.

Now, watch them come back with "so. what's your suggestion?" as if BP needs suggestions from people who have no earthly clue about dealing
with a spewing oil well a mile under the surface of the Golf of Mexico.

The greedy bastards sure need something besides the hand-wringing
bankrupt shit they have been doing. Oh, and BTW, I did say I had no
idea of the conditions a mile down. So fucking what? Neither do you. Again, so fucking what? My idea or either of Wayne's has at least a
good chance of working as what has been attempted thus far.

I won't ask for your suggestions as I consider you to be devoid of
fresh ideas. Fiddle-dee-dee.

I've been wondering if BP hasn't been mucking about with the frame rates of the live video feeds of the oil well.

To make their liability appear less.

Looks a bit suspicious from time to time to me.

I'm using two feeds one linked at The Huffington Post and the other MSNBC
to PBS's Newshour.

Right now they're different views with one _seeming_ to show
reduced flow out of the well head and the other appearing to be
robot underwater vehicles with manipulator arms brandishing what
appears to be something like a circular saw.


I still tink a cryogenic gas introduced into the pipe might give them
the time to pour in a heavy enough load of drilling mud to oppose the
upwelling oil in order to allow capping the well.

Then too one could also use the hydraulic advantage I also mentioned
in a post by emplying one of the domes to focus a greater force of drilling
mud onto the well head.

... So easy, a child could do it. Child sold separately.
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MARK LEWIS wrote to ROSS CASSELL <=-

Too obvious.
Everyone is looking for the complex and complicated but the
template for the solution exists in a garage mechanics lift.

Lets see ANYONE shoot holes into this!

Even if they can't they will attack you personally, you old lefty
criminal biker dude, you. Bv)=

Too bad no one from BP will read his suggestion.

you might be surprised about that... they get thousands of suggestions
and many of them are the same as what their own people have come up with...

/me wonders if folk might be better off reading the content and viewing the videos available on the BP site rather than sitting here playing armchair quarterback without a clue :? :rolleyes:

There's a BP video link site?

I've got one linked through The Huffington Post and another through
MSNBC to PBS's Newshour, do you have any others?



--- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
* Origin: Doc's Place BBS Fido Since 1991 docsplace.tzo.com (1:123/140)

Even if they can't they will attack you personally, you old lefty
criminal biker dude, you. Bv)=

Too bad no one from BP will read his suggestion.

you might be surprised about that... they get thousands of suggestions
and many of them are the same as what their own people have come up with...

I am sure the trained engineers have brain stormed alot of ideas,
from silly to sane.

i'm sure they have, too... but the point is that they do accept suggestions from John Q. Public...

Wonder if any thought of a nuke?

dunno... they haven't mentioned it on their site... it could work, ya know...

/me wonders if folk might be better off reading the content and
viewing the videos available on the BP site rather than sitting here playing armchair quarterback without a clue :? :rolleyes:

With the enthusiasm Wayne shows in his suggestions, one might ask
him, if he has emailed the right people.

why hasn't someone, then? seems to me that too many revel too much in taking potshots and shooting others down all the time... in fact, that's all i see in all of the so called "political" areas in fidonet :rolleyes:

I still think his cryogenic idea was insane tho.. LOL

i don't know why... it is only about 30F down there at the well head... they could freeze the mud they're pumping down there but i don't know how...

what i thought was rather "facinating" was their "junk shot" idea... in this they pump all manner of stuff of varying sizes down into the BOP to get it to stop up... things like pieces of tires, golf balls, marbles, and such... the idea being to get large things in to the large holes and then plug the smaller holes with the smaller items and so on until it is all plugged up...

in any case, they have to stop the flow at the wellhead and then they will be filling the borehole with cement to completely plug it... once that's done, they will be abandoning that well for good... of course, they're also boring two relief wells into the same shaft... depending on how that goes, they may be
able to use those relief well to continue to harvest the oil product that is in
that resevoir...

at least this oil isn't that thick sludge crap like what exxon released in alaska...

)\/(ark


* Origin: (1:3634/12)

/me wonders if folk might be better off reading the content and viewing the videos available on the BP site rather than sitting here playing

^^^^^^^^^^^

armchair quarterback without a clue :? :rolleyes:

There's a BP video link site?

http://www.bp.com/

there's archived vids of their discussions... i watched one that was an hour long the other day... there's even live real-time streaming video from the ROVs
down there... it is extremely interesting but can get boring from the monotony of watching the same stuff all the time... kinda like watching an aquarium with
only one fish in it ;)

)\/(ark


* Origin: (1:3634/12)

On 05/29/2010 08:29 AM, mark lewis -> Ed Hulett wrote:

Now, watch them come back with "so. what's your suggestion?" as if
BP needs suggestions from people who have no earthly clue about
dealing with a spewing oil well a mile under the surface of the
Golf of Mexico.

uh... they /are/ taking suggestions from all points...

Not from idiots who think it can be frozen by pumping liquid nitrogen into it.

The claim that a $500,000 redundant switch would have somehow
stopped a hydraulic failure of the blow out preventer is making its
rounds of all the left-wing blogs and talking heads. It has passed
the left-wing gospel rule, so that's all they can point to as the
cause. What they can't square with that is the fact that shortly
before the well exploded, Obama's administration gave that well an
award for safely.

where is this award mentioned? i've not seen anything about it... since when does some presidential administration give awards for corporate operations or some part of a corporation's operations? don't they have better things to do... like run the country??

It was given by the interior department, namely the MMS whose head resigned just a few short hours before BHO gave his long overdue press conference.

It shouldn't be hard for you to do a Google search of your own to verify that the award was given.

Uh... in BHO's case, he's not "run[ning] the country, he's golfing, taking vacations, refusing to comment or answer hard questions from the press and trying to bribe Congressmen to drop out of primary races.

Ed

--
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Blogs: http://edsramblings.wordpress.com | http://woodcaringnsuch.wordpress.com http://edsscrollsawbits.blogspot.com | http://eds-omnium-gatherum.blogspot.com

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On 05/29/2010 08:19 AM, Ross Cassell -> WAYNE CHIRNSIDE wrote:

Hello WAYNE!

29 May 10 03:24, you wrote to me:

Too obvious.
Everyone is looking for the complex and complicated but the
template for the solution exists in a garage mechanics lift.

Lets see ANYONE shoot holes into this!

Even if they can't they will attack you personally, you old lefty
criminal biker dude, you. Bv)=

Too bad no one from BP will read his suggestion.

But one CAN write to the head of the United States Dept of Energy.

and have you, have they asked for your credentials yet?

Why would anyone write to the DoE about this? They have little to do with it. You'd get more results by writing to DoI, MMS to be precise or directly to BP.

Ed

--
"The known propensity of a democracy is to licentiousness which the ambitious call, and ignorant believe to be liberty." --Fisher Ames, speech in the Massachusetts Ratifying Convention, 1788

Blogs: http://edsramblings.wordpress.com | http://woodcaringnsuch.wordpress.com http://edsscrollsawbits.blogspot.com | http://eds-omnium-gatherum.blogspot.com

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Linux User #416016
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On 05/29/2010 09:10 AM, WAYNE CHIRNSIDE -> ROSS CASSELL wrote:

ROSS CASSELL wrote to WAYNE CHIRNSIDE <=-

Hello WAYNE!

29 May 10 03:24, you wrote to me:

Too obvious.
Everyone is looking for the complex and complicated but the
template for the solution exists in a garage mechanics lift.

Lets see ANYONE shoot holes into this!

Even if they can't they will attack you personally, you old lefty
criminal biker dude, you. Bv)=

Too bad no one from BP will read his suggestion.

But one CAN write to the head of the United States Dept of Energy.

and have you, have they asked for your credentials yet?

One need not have credentials to cite Junior H.S. newtonian physics.

You OTOH were recently known in this very echo and for some years now
have been giving medical advice for such medical matters as stroke and

flu.

"Go consult a doctor" now requires credentials?

Ed

--
"The known propensity of a democracy is to licentiousness which the ambitious call, and ignorant believe to be liberty." --Fisher Ames, speech in the Massachusetts Ratifying Convention, 1788

Blogs: http://edsramblings.wordpress.com | http://woodcaringnsuch.wordpress.com http://edsscrollsawbits.blogspot.com | http://eds-omnium-gatherum.blogspot.com

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MARK LEWIS wrote to ED HULETT <=-

Now, watch them come back with "so. what's your suggestion?" as if
BP needs suggestions from people who have no earthly clue about
dealing with a spewing oil well a mile under the surface of the
Golf of Mexico.

uh... they /are/ taking suggestions from all points...

The claim that a $500,000 redundant switch would have somehow
stopped a hydraulic failure of the blow out preventer is making its
rounds of all the left-wing blogs and talking heads. It has passed
the left-wing gospel rule, so that's all they can point to as the
cause. What they can't square with that is the fact that shortly
before the well exploded, Obama's administration gave that well an
award for safely.

where is this award mentioned? i've not seen anything about it... since when does some presidential administration give awards for corporate operations or some part of a corporation's operations? don't they have better things to do... like run the country??

I've not heard anything about that either.

Sounds like bull to me.

The only award I'm aware of was the one conferred by BP
where the BP executives flew out to the Deepwater Horizon to award
that crew for exemplary safety and that turned into quite an ironic
tragedy.


It's becoming ever more difficut to get ANY credible news on most anything
of importance about anything these days IMO.

Even with my having all the time in the world and the internet
it's quite difficult to remain informed about the important issues.

For instance the war in Iraq seems to have disappeared off the radar.

Afganistan, well Afganistan is going the way historically it always does with Afganistan.

Pakistan, the number three as yet undeclared war.
North Korea simmering.

Iran??? who knows.

Lively times we live in.

A couple of year back when all this was just all flaring up I
made mention I was nostalgic for the good old days when we only
worried about nuclear death raining down from the skys and not terrorists behind every shadow.


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ROSS CASSELL wrote to MARK LEWIS <=-

Hello mark!

29 May 10 11:25, you wrote to me:

Even if they can't they will attack you personally, you old lefty
criminal biker dude, you. Bv)=

Too bad no one from BP will read his suggestion.

you might be surprised about that... they get thousands of suggestions
and many of them are the same as what their own people have come up with...

I am sure the trained engineers have brain stormed alot of ideas, from silly to sane.

Wonder if any thought of a nuke?

/me wonders if folk might be better off reading the content and
viewing the videos available on the BP site rather than sitting here playing armchair quarterback without a clue :? :rolleyes:

With the enthusiasm Wayne shows in his suggestions, one might ask him,
if he has emailed the right people.

I still think his cryogenic idea was insane tho.. LOL

I don't suppose you've a REASON for that opinion?

Why wouldn't flash freezing the upwelling oil within the
well pipe not give them a window of opportunity to pour drilling mud
down then cement the well.

Have you ever witnessed personally how extraordinarily FAST liquid nitrogen
or liquid helium utterly and completely solidifies matter in a split second?
I have and it's rather impressive.





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On 05/29/2010 05:29 AM, Dave Drum -> Ed Hulett wrote:

Ed Hulett wrote to Ross Cassell <=-

Even if they can't they will attack you personally, you old lefty
criminal biker dude, you. Bv)=

Too bad no one from BP will read his suggestion.

I've been enjoying these guys talk like they're more informed than the
engineers trying to stop the leak. As if the engineers are ignorant of
hydraulics (hint: that's what they are using WRT to pumping drilling
mud and concrete down into the well). I really enjoyed WC and DD
discussing using a tactical nuke to seal it off.

Sometimes, you know, the Emperor *IS* naked. If you enjoy the idea of using a
tactical nuke so much, why don't you just go volunteer to swim down through all
that valuable oil and place the device at the source of the leakage.
Then stick
around to set it off ... just to be sure it works as planned.

You guys came up with the idea, you go for it.

Let us know how it worked.

Now, watch them come back with "so. what's your suggestion?" as if BP
needs suggestions from people who have no earthly clue about dealing
with a spewing oil well a mile under the surface of the Golf of Mexico.

The greedy bastards sure need something besides the hand-wringing
bankrupt shit
they have been doing. Oh, and BTW, I did say I had no idea of the conditions a
mile down. So fucking what? Neither do you. Again, so fucking what? My idea or
either of Wayne's has at least a good chance of working as what has been attempted thus far.

Right, that's all they've been doing is hand-wringing. Since you don't know the
dynamics they are dealing with, why do you presume that they are hand-wringing instead of busily trying to stop the leak? If the leak was on dry land it would
have been stopped within an hour of it starting. Since it is a mile down and they have to rely on remote unmanned underwater vehicles, it's not quite so easy.

I won't ask for your suggestions as I consider you to be devoid of fresh ideas.

I don't pretend to know more than the BP engineers like some people here. I defer to their expertise instead of coming up with wild guesses like you and Wayne.

Ed

--
"The known propensity of a democracy is to licentiousness which the ambitious call, and ignorant believe to be liberty." --Fisher Ames, speech in the Massachusetts Ratifying Convention, 1788

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MARK LEWIS wrote to WAYNE CHIRNSIDE <=-

/me wonders if folk might be better off reading the content and viewing the videos available on the BP site rather than sitting here playing
^^^^^^^^^^^
armchair quarterback without a clue :? :rolleyes:

There's a BP video link site?

http://www.bp.com

Typically obvious.
So much so it never occured to me to look.

Thanks.

there's archived vids of their discussions... i watched one that was an hour long the other day... there's even live real-time streaming video from the ROVs down there... it is extremely interesting but can get
boring from the monotony of watching the same stuff all the time...
kinda like watching an aquarium with only one fish in it ;)

Yeah I got to watch some of that with the mechanical manipulator
arms on one of my links here.

Sending this then off to bp.com
to scope out if that might not be another view or views.

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MARK LEWIS wrote to ROSS CASSELL <=-

Even if they can't they will attack you personally, you old lefty
criminal biker dude, you. Bv)=

Too bad no one from BP will read his suggestion.

you might be surprised about that... they get thousands of suggestions
and many of them are the same as what their own people have come up with...

I am sure the trained engineers have brain stormed alot of ideas,
from silly to sane.

i'm sure they have, too... but the point is that they do accept suggestions from John Q. Public...

Wonder if any thought of a nuke?

dunno... they haven't mentioned it on their site... it could work, ya know...

/me wonders if folk might be better off reading the content and
viewing the videos available on the BP site rather than sitting here playing armchair quarterback without a clue :? :rolleyes:

With the enthusiasm Wayne shows in his suggestions, one might ask
him, if he has emailed the right people.

why hasn't someone, then? seems to me that too many revel too much in taking potshots and shooting others down all the time... in fact,
that's all i see in all of the so called "political" areas in fidonet

:rolleyes:

There's a link at the Dept. of Energy web site.

I still think his cryogenic idea was insane tho.. LOL

i don't know why... it is only about 30F down there at the well head... they could freeze the mud they're pumping down there but i don't know how...

They could guide a pipe into the well as they've doe with already at least twice sending liquid nitrogen or helium into the oil stream flash freezing it which _might_ give them time enough to pump in heavy drilling mud to overcome the force of the upwelling oil.

This idea seems somewhat more promising than the 'junk shot.'

I mean what do I know but has this junk shot worked in the past and if
so what's its track record?

what i thought was rather "facinating" was their "junk shot" idea... in this they pump all manner of stuff of varying sizes down into the BOP
to get it to stop up... things like pieces of tires, golf balls,
marbles, and such... the idea being to get large things in to the large holes and then plug the smaller holes with the smaller items and so on until it is all plugged up...

I don't see how a bunch of loose stuff is supposed to prevail against
the force of that oil rushing out of the well.

in any case, they have to stop the flow at the wellhead and then they
will be filling the borehole with cement to completely plug it... once that's done, they will be abandoning that well for good... of course, they're also boring two relief wells into the same shaft... depending
on how that goes, they may be able to use those relief well to continue
to harvest the oil product that is in that resevoir...

at least this oil isn't that thick sludge crap like what exxon released
in alaska...

Heres hoping *someone* comes up with something that works.
I don't really much care who.

If it's stopped today it's still an unprecidented environmental
disaster.

Hey it's kinda nice to engage in something other than countering
personal attack, ISTR a time when that was the norm rather than the
exception in fidonet.

Today ANY political echo seems to be nothing but a rabid flame echo :-(

I HAD announced some YEARS ago I'd intended to abandon ALL political echos
and DID SO however certain individuals followed me into other echos such
as the Linux and fido_News echos dragging the exact same nonsense along
with them that persists today.

So having seen most all other echos decline to near zero traffic I turned
this one back on only to hear that Dan Ceppa was unfortunately no longer
the moderator here which under his moderation kept the personal
bull down in here.

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On 05/29/2010 08:25 AM, mark lewis -> Ross Cassell wrote:

Too obvious.
Everyone is looking for the complex and complicated but the
template for the solution exists in a garage mechanics lift.

Lets see ANYONE shoot holes into this!

Even if they can't they will attack you personally, you old lefty
criminal biker dude, you. Bv)=

Too bad no one from BP will read his suggestion.

you might be surprised about that... they get thousands of suggestions
and many of them are the same as what their own people have come up

with...

Even if they are willing to listen to suggestions from the public, they have to
weigh those suggestions against reality. Since it is their necks on the line, I
doubt they would be willing to try some wild guess that a self-appointed expert
comes up with.

/me wonders if folk might be better off reading the content and viewing the videos available on the BP site rather than sitting here playing armchair quarterback without a clue :? :rolleyes:

The armchair quarterbacking is coming from WC, DD and RS.

Ed

--
"The known propensity of a democracy is to licentiousness which the ambitious call, and ignorant believe to be liberty." --Fisher Ames, speech in the Massachusetts Ratifying Convention, 1788

Blogs: http://edsramblings.wordpress.com | http://woodcaringnsuch.wordpress.com http://edsscrollsawbits.blogspot.com | http://eds-omnium-gatherum.blogspot.com

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ED HULETT wrote to WAYNE CHIRNSIDE <=-

On 05/29/2010 09:10 AM, WAYNE CHIRNSIDE -> ROSS CASSELL wrote:

ROSS CASSELL wrote to WAYNE CHIRNSIDE <=-

Hello WAYNE!

29 May 10 03:24, you wrote to me:

Too obvious.
Everyone is looking for the complex and complicated but the
template for the solution exists in a garage mechanics lift.

Lets see ANYONE shoot holes into this!

Even if they can't they will attack you personally, you old lefty
criminal biker dude, you. Bv)=

Too bad no one from BP will read his suggestion.

But one CAN write to the head of the United States Dept of Energy.

and have you, have they asked for your credentials yet?

One need not have credentials to cite Junior H.S. newtonian physics.

You OTOH were recently known in this very echo and for some years now
have been giving medical advice for such medical matters as stroke and

flu.

"Go consult a doctor" now requires credentials?

Yip yip yip.

And that is not what he said.
He gave detailed medical advice that directly contradicted that
to be had at the Center for Disease Control web site.



... So easy, a child could do it. Child sold separately.
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/me wonders if folk might be better off reading the content and

viewing

the videos available on the BP site rather than sitting here

playing

^^^^^^^^^^^

armchair quarterback without a clue :? :rolleyes:

There's a BP video link site?

http://www.bp.com/

Oh well, doesn't work.

Their flash video link doesn't hook up with libflashplayer.so
in Slackware GNU/Linux
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.0pr5
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Hello mark!

29 May 10 11:29, you wrote to Ed Hulett:

Now, watch them come back with "so. what's your suggestion?" as
if BP needs suggestions from people who have no earthly clue
about dealing with a spewing oil well a mile under the surface of
the Golf of Mexico.

uh... they /are/ taking suggestions from all points...

I doubt BP has anyone monitoring Fidonet..

"BP Employee rings up their headquarters in Houston, hey guys, I was logged onto a BBS, that claims to be on some sort of network called Fidonet, in an echo, they said to do this....."

stopped a hydraulic failure of the blow out preventer is making
its rounds of all the left-wing blogs and talking heads. It has
passed the left-wing gospel rule, so that's all they can point to
as the cause. What they can't square with that is the fact that
shortly before the well exploded, Obama's administration gave
that well an award for safely.

where is this award mentioned? i've not seen anything about it...
since when does some presidential administration give awards for
corporate operations or some part of a corporation's operations? don't they have better things to do... like run the country??

Well they just did take charge of the operation, but are deferring tp BP.

==
Ross
Fidonet Feeds Or Fidonet In Your Newsreader: http://www.easternstar.info E-mail: ross(at)cassell(dot)us | Other Places: http://links.cassell.us
... Bigot: Anyone who's winning an argument with a Democrat.
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20060121
* Origin: The Eastern Star - Spartanburg, SC USA (1:123/456)

Hello WAYNE!

29 May 10 12:10, you wrote to me:

Even if they can't they will attack you personally, you old
lefty criminal biker dude, you. Bv)=

Too bad no one from BP will read his suggestion.

But one CAN write to the head of the United States Dept of
Energy.

and have you, have they asked for your credentials yet?

One need not have credentials to cite Junior H.S. newtonian physics.

But did you forward your suggestion?

Fidonet is a hobbyist messaging network, I doubt BP has anyone monitoring it, instead BP might be soliciting input from the portions of academia that deal with the sciences and engineering, wouldnt you think?

You have that blazing fast internet connection, I am sure a well written and properly addressed email would get to BP if you bothered to write it, instead of armchair quarterbacking the situation with a liberal fuddy duddy from Illinois.

Its not like you dont have the time.

You OTOH were recently known in this very echo and for some years now
have been giving medical advice for such medical matters as stroke and flu.

A stroke is not something that should be ignored, as such, you did..

==
Ross
Fidonet Feeds Or Fidonet In Your Newsreader: http://www.easternstar.info E-mail: ross(at)cassell(dot)us | Other Places: http://links.cassell.us
... Bigot: Anyone who's winning an argument with a Democrat.
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20060121
* Origin: The Eastern Star - Spartanburg, SC USA (1:123/456)

Now, watch them come back with "so. what's your suggestion?" as if
BP needs suggestions from people who have no earthly clue about
dealing with a spewing oil well a mile under the surface of the
Golf of Mexico.

uh... they /are/ taking suggestions from all points...

Not from idiots who think it can be frozen by pumping liquid
nitrogen into it.

bullshit, ed... they are taking suggestions from all points... whether or not they consider or use them is another matter altogether...

if you don't work for them on this project, then don't speak like you know what
they are doing... you doing so is nothing more than armchair quarterbacking without facts or knowledge and it belittles you more than you try to do to others...

The claim that a $500,000 redundant switch would have somehow
stopped a hydraulic failure of the blow out preventer is making its
rounds of all the left-wing blogs and talking heads. It has passed
the left-wing gospel rule, so that's all they can point to as the
cause. What they can't square with that is the fact that shortly
before the well exploded, Obama's administration gave that well an
award for safely.

where is this award mentioned? i've not seen anything about it... since when does some presidential administration give awards for corporate operations or some part of a corporation's operations? don't they have better things to do... like run the country??

It was given by the interior department, namely the MMS whose head resigned just a few short hours before BHO gave his long overdue
press conference.

It shouldn't be hard for you to do a Google search of your own to
verify that the award was given.

i wouldn't have asked if i hadn't done the searches... since i did and found nothing, perhaps you'd care to actually post a URL to the mention of said award??

Uh... in BHO's case, he's not "run[ning] the country, he's golfing,
taking vacations, refusing to comment or answer hard questions from
the press and trying to bribe Congressmen to drop out of primary
races.

gee... ya think? sounds much like your hero(s)... if they can do it, why not others?? double standards??

)\/(ark


* Origin: (1:3634/12)

Hello WAYNE!

29 May 10 14:13, you wrote to ED HULETT:

You OTOH were recently known in this very echo and for some years
now have been giving medical advice for such medical matters as
stroke and

flu.

"Go consult a doctor" now requires credentials?

Yip yip yip.

And that is not what he said.

Hardly,

Wayne: "I've had a stroke, please feel sorry for me"
Wayne: "I've had a stroke, please feel sorry for me"
Wayne: "I've had a stroke, please feel sorry for me"

[mentioned ad naseum]

Ross: "Have you sought treatment or seen a Doctor?"

[Repeated to you quite often]

Wayne: "No, I know a guy who died because he got treated for a stroke"

You might be a smart person, but you do stupid things.

and when you are not doing that, you are blaming everything on someone or something else, its never ever your fault Wayne.

==
Ross
Fidonet Feeds Or Fidonet In Your Newsreader: http://www.easternstar.info E-mail: ross(at)cassell(dot)us | Other Places: http://links.cassell.us
... Bigot: Anyone who's winning an argument with a Democrat.
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20060121
* Origin: The Eastern Star - Spartanburg, SC USA (1:123/456)

Hello mark!

29 May 10 14:43, you wrote to Ed Hulett:

Not from idiots who think it can be frozen by pumping liquid
nitrogen into it.

bullshit, ed... they are taking suggestions from all points... whether
or not they consider or use them is another matter altogether...

I would think that the aeration and agitation would not a stable plug make.

where is this award mentioned? i've not seen anything about it...
since when does some presidential administration give awards for
corporate operations or some part of a corporation's operations?
don't they have better things to do... like run the country??

It was given by the interior department, namely the MMS whose
head resigned just a few short hours before BHO gave his long
overdue press conference.

It shouldn't be hard for you to do a Google search of your own to
verify that the award was given.

i wouldn't have asked if i hadn't done the searches... since i did and found nothing, perhaps you'd care to actually post a URL to the
mention of said award??

I got plenty of hits using this search string in Google:

Oil rig given safety award

I didnt pick a hit for you to read, figuring that you could pick one you liked,
now that I have steered you in the right direction.. LOL

Uh... in BHO's case, he's not "run[ning] the country, he's
golfing, taking vacations, refusing to comment or answer hard
questions from the press and trying to bribe Congressmen to drop
out of primary races.

gee... ya think? sounds much like your hero(s)... if they can do it,
why not others?? double standards??

Except that that other President was villified by the same media whom isnt saying Jack Squat about what this President is doing..

and I might add, that if this President was GOP, or that if this had happened during Dubya, there would have been screams of bloody murder if said President was not on the Gulf Coast 5 seconds after the rig sank.

==
Ross
Fidonet Feeds Or Fidonet In Your Newsreader: http://www.easternstar.info E-mail: ross(at)cassell(dot)us | Other Places: http://links.cassell.us
... Bigot: Anyone who's winning an argument with a Democrat.
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20060121
* Origin: The Eastern Star - Spartanburg, SC USA (1:123/456)

Hello WAYNE!

29 May 10 13:50, you wrote to me:

I still think his cryogenic idea was insane tho.. LOL

I don't suppose you've a REASON for that opinion?

Why wouldn't flash freezing the upwelling oil within the
well pipe not give them a window of opportunity to pour drilling mud
down then cement the well.

Because on the face of it, there is alot of agitation and aeration going on, as
there are gases being expelled along with the oil, meaning that any plug that could be formed would have the tensile strength of a sponge. (Bubbles and Cavities)

As for the oil, being expelled under pressure I might add, the various components from what comprises Kerosene down to asphalt, all have different properties that make the certainties of a viable plug, unrealistic in my estimation. Who am I, John Q. Public, just another asshole with an opinion.

5 miles down, under great pressure from the depths, in a saltwater environment,
I am loathe to consider that things will behave down there as they do in a lab at sealevel or even as depicted in the 'movies'...

Have you ever witnessed personally how extraordinarily FAST liquid nitrogen or liquid helium utterly and completely solidifies matter in
a split second? I have and it's rather impressive.

I have seen it used in lab environments on the documentaries, not in person... I suspect that when you witnessed it, you werent in a diving suit, 5 miles under the surface of the ocean at the breech of a oil wellhead?

If anything Wayne, I am just being extremely skeptical.

==
Ross
Fidonet Feeds Or Fidonet In Your Newsreader: http://www.easternstar.info E-mail: ross(at)cassell(dot)us | Other Places: http://links.cassell.us
... Bigot: Anyone who's winning an argument with a Democrat.
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20060121
* Origin: The Eastern Star - Spartanburg, SC USA (1:123/456)

On 05/29/2010 11:43 AM, mark lewis -> Ed Hulett wrote:

Now, watch them come back with "so. what's your suggestion?" as if
BP needs suggestions from people who have no earthly clue about
dealing with a spewing oil well a mile under the surface of the
Golf of Mexico.

uh... they /are/ taking suggestions from all points...

Not from idiots who think it can be frozen by pumping liquid
nitrogen into it.

bullshit, ed... they are taking suggestions from all points... whether
or not they consider or use them is another matter altogether...

Apparently you are another who likes to argue for the sake of argument.

if you don't work for them on this project, then don't speak like you
know what they are doing... you doing so is nothing more than armchair quarterbacking without facts or knowledge and it belittles you more than you try to do to others...

Huh? Where on earth do you get the silly armchair quarterbacking idea? I haven't done any such thing.

The claim that a $500,000 redundant switch would have somehow
stopped a hydraulic failure of the blow out preventer is making its
rounds of all the left-wing blogs and talking heads. It has passed
the left-wing gospel rule, so that's all they can point to as the
cause. What they can't square with that is the fact that shortly
before the well exploded, Obama's administration gave that well an
award for safely.

where is this award mentioned? i've not seen anything about it... since
when does some presidential administration give awards for corporate
operations or some part of a corporation's operations? don't they have
better things to do... like run the country??

It was given by the interior department, namely the MMS whose head
resigned just a few short hours before BHO gave his long overdue
press conference.

It shouldn't be hard for you to do a Google search of your own to
verify that the award was given.

i wouldn't have asked if i hadn't done the searches... since i did and found nothing, perhaps you'd care to actually post a URL to the mention
of said award??

http://bit.ly/azgmqA

Uh... in BHO's case, he's not "run[ning] the country, he's golfing,
taking vacations, refusing to comment or answer hard questions from
the press and trying to bribe Congressmen to drop out of primary
races.

gee... ya think? sounds much like your hero(s)... if they can do it, why not others?? double standards??

My heroes? Who would that be?

You just above claimed BHO was too busy running the country to give awards for safety to an oil rig. Now you are saying "they all do it" when I point out he's
out playing golf rather than running the country.

Which is it?

Ed

--
"The known propensity of a democracy is to licentiousness which the ambitious call, and ignorant believe to be liberty." --Fisher Ames, speech in the Massachusetts Ratifying Convention, 1788

Blogs: http://edsramblings.wordpress.com | http://woodcaringnsuch.wordpress.com http://edsscrollsawbits.blogspot.com | http://eds-omnium-gatherum.blogspot.com

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On 05/29/2010 11:13 AM, WAYNE CHIRNSIDE -> ED HULETT wrote:

ED HULETT wrote to WAYNE CHIRNSIDE <=-

On 05/29/2010 09:10 AM, WAYNE CHIRNSIDE -> ROSS CASSELL wrote:

ROSS CASSELL wrote to WAYNE CHIRNSIDE <=-

Hello WAYNE!

29 May 10 03:24, you wrote to me:

Too obvious.
Everyone is looking for the complex and complicated but the
template for the solution exists in a garage mechanics lift.

Lets see ANYONE shoot holes into this!

Even if they can't they will attack you personally, you old lefty
criminal biker dude, you. Bv)=

Too bad no one from BP will read his suggestion.

But one CAN write to the head of the United States Dept of Energy.

and have you, have they asked for your credentials yet?

One need not have credentials to cite Junior H.S. newtonian physics.

You OTOH were recently known in this very echo and for some years now
have been giving medical advice for such medical matters as stroke and

flu.

"Go consult a doctor" now requires credentials?

Yip yip yip.

Nice rebuttal...

And that is not what he said.
He gave detailed medical advice that directly contradicted that
to be had at the Center for Disease Control web site.

Total nonsense, he did no such thing.

Ed

--
"The known propensity of a democracy is to licentiousness which the ambitious call, and ignorant believe to be liberty." --Fisher Ames, speech in the Massachusetts Ratifying Convention, 1788

Blogs: http://edsramblings.wordpress.com | http://woodcaringnsuch.wordpress.com http://edsscrollsawbits.blogspot.com | http://eds-omnium-gatherum.blogspot.com

Facebook: http://wwwfacebook.com/ed.hulett | Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/yaesu

Linux User #416016
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--- Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.1.9) Gecko/20100423 Thunderb
* Origin: Fidonet Via Newsreader - http://www.easternstar.info (1:123/789.0)

Hello Ed!

29 May 10 16:02, you wrote to WAYNE CHIRNSIDE:

"Go consult a doctor" now requires credentials?

Yip yip yip.

Nice rebuttal...

Must be a symptom of that galloping dementia.

And that is not what he said.
He gave detailed medical advice that directly contradicted that
to be had at the Center for Disease Control web site.

Total nonsense, he did no such thing.

He also manufactures memories.

==
Ross
Fidonet Feeds Or Fidonet In Your Newsreader: http://www.easternstar.info E-mail: ross(at)cassell(dot)us | Other Places: http://links.cassell.us
... Bigot: Anyone who's winning an argument with a Democrat.
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20060121
* Origin: The Eastern Star - Spartanburg, SC USA (1:123/456)

On 05-28-10, ED HULETT said to ROSS CASSELL:

Too obvious.
Everyone is looking for the complex and complicated but the
template for the solution exists in a garage mechanics lift.

Lets see ANYONE shoot holes into this!

Even if they can't they will attack you personally, you old lefty
criminal biker dude, you. Bv)=

Too bad no one from BP will read his suggestion.

I've been enjoying these guys talk like they're more informed than the EH>engineers trying to stop the leak. As if the engineers are ignorant of EH>hydraulics (hint: that's what they are using WRT to pumping drilling mud EH>and concrete down into the well). I really enjoyed WC and DD discussing EH>using a tactical nuke to seal it off.

I've been enjoying the sight of Chirnside trying to fake up that high IQ he claims to have.


His sudden form of sintax and misuse of various expression, in an attempt to `be' so intelligent is hilarious! Prior to his claim of a one hundred and thirty-fuckin'-seven IQ he talked like a street person. Now....he tries to
talk like a nuclear physicist!


By the way....isn't there a treaty of some sort banning underwater nuclear explosions? And what is the possibility of making a bad situation worse? If a methane gas explosion caused `this' rupture of the syetem, imagine the possibility of a nuclear explosion in the vicinity of the sea-floor where the oil is gushing out. Maybe turning a disaster into a major catastrophe that can never be repaired!


You'd think someone with a one hundred and thirty-fuckin'-seven IQ would have thought of that!



---
*Durango b301 #PE*
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On 05/29/2010 01:10 PM, Ross Cassell -> Ed Hulett wrote:

Hello Ed!

29 May 10 16:02, you wrote to WAYNE CHIRNSIDE:

"Go consult a doctor" now requires credentials?

Yip yip yip.

Nice rebuttal...

Must be a symptom of that galloping dementia.

Apparently so.

And that is not what he said.
He gave detailed medical advice that directly contradicted that
to be had at the Center for Disease Control web site.

Total nonsense, he did no such thing.

He also manufactures memories.

Out of whole cloth.

Ed

--
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On 05/29/2010 10:40 AM, TIM RICHARDSON -> ED HULETT wrote:

On 05-28-10, ED HULETT said to ROSS CASSELL:

Too obvious.
Everyone is looking for the complex and complicated but the
template for the solution exists in a garage mechanics lift.

Lets see ANYONE shoot holes into this!

Even if they can't they will attack you personally, you old lefty
criminal biker dude, you. Bv)=

Too bad no one from BP will read his suggestion.

I've been enjoying these guys talk like they're more informed than the
engineers trying to stop the leak. As if the engineers are ignorant of
hydraulics (hint: that's what they are using WRT to pumping drilling mud
and concrete down into the well). I really enjoyed WC and DD discussing
using a tactical nuke to seal it off.

I've been enjoying the sight of Chirnside trying to fake up that high IQ

he

claims to have.

"I've a high IQ, you know." "I've a higher IQ than all of BP's engineers combined."

His sudden form of sintax and misuse of various expression, in an
attempt to
`be' so intelligent is hilarious! Prior to his claim of a one hundred and thirty-fuckin'-seven IQ he talked like a street person. Now....he tries to talk like a nuclear physicist!

He had to admit his silly idea of freezing it with liquid Nitrogen was possibly
not feasible.

He hasn't even considered how they would get the liquid Nitrogen a mile down to
the gushing leak in the first place.

By the way....isn't there a treaty of some sort banning underwater nuclear explosions? And what is the possibility of making a bad situation worse? If a
methane gas explosion caused `this' rupture of the syetem, imagine the possibility of a nuclear explosion in the vicinity of the sea-floor
where the
oil is gushing out. Maybe turning a disaster into a major catastrophe
that can
never be repaired!

"Well, what's your suggestion?" Like to comment on their silly ideas requires you have a better idea. I'll leave all that to the experts who know more about the dynamics involved.

You'd think someone with a one hundred and thirty-fuckin'-seven IQ would have
thought of that!

He's just coming up with ideas, all that silly figuring if they would work is for someone else.

Ed

--
"The known propensity of a democracy is to licentiousness which the ambitious call, and ignorant believe to be liberty." --Fisher Ames, speech in the Massachusetts Ratifying Convention, 1788

Blogs: http://edsramblings.wordpress.com | http://woodcaringnsuch.wordpress.com http://edsscrollsawbits.blogspot.com | http://eds-omnium-gatherum.blogspot.com

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the videos available on the BP site rather than sitting here
^^^^^^^^^^^
armchair quarterback without a clue :? :rolleyes:

There's a BP video link site?

http://www.bp.com

Typically obvious.
So much so it never occured to me to look.

Thanks.

not a problem... i was rather surprised to have to point it out, really... i started to (originally) write something like "obvious URL for the BP site" which i guess i could have done :)

there's archived vids of their discussions... i watched one that was an hour long the other day... there's even live real-time streaming video from the ROVs down there... it is extremely interesting but can get
boring from the monotony of watching the same stuff all the time...
kinda like watching an aquarium with only one fish in it ;)

Yeah I got to watch some of that with the mechanical manipulator
arms on one of my links here.

yeah... i haven't seen that yet but i'm only watching the one live link from the BP site, too... i'm thinking that what you saw that looked like a saw blade
may have been the diamond saw they have talked about cutting the top off of the
BOP with so they could attach a plug on top... the cut has to be "perfectly flat" so that the rubber grommet seal will fit properly... currently i'm seeing
a hose that's "bouncing around"... looks like it is flexing from material being
pumped thru it... i'm not sure where the ROV is, though because its Alt jumped around from 28.something to 158.something and now reads 0.0 and its depth seems
to be rising thru 4685.something at the moment but it was jumping around a bit,
too... the ROV appears to be the Skandi Neptune... its longitute and latitude are also moving around so i can only assume that they are moving it somewhere else than the plume monitoring place they've had it at... not sure which plume they were watching but i think it was the riser pipe laying out on the bottom (460' away)... it definitely wasn't the top of the BOP where the riser was bent
over and split...

Sending this then off to bp.com
to scope out if that might not be another view or views.

maybe it'll be something they can use... who knows? :)

)\/(ark


* Origin: (1:3634/12)

Total nonsense, he did no such thing.

He also manufactures memories.

Any connection between this thread and politics has long since been lost
in the chaff. Time to end it.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.3/M 10
* Origin: (1:226/600)

There's a link at the Dept. of Energy web site.

i'll take a look and see if i can find any other videos than the one i have been watching... they've definitely been moving Skandi Neptune because now it is showing a completely black view with some rod or pipe of some kind at about a 30 degree angle that's barely lighted... depth of 4626.something if i'm reading the screen correctly ;)

[trim]

This idea seems somewhat more promising than the 'junk shot.'

I mean what do I know but has this junk shot worked in the past and
if so what's its track record?

i dunno... this is the first blowout they've had to deal with in deep water... AFAIK, it is also the first time a "junk shot" has been used, too... i thought that i was mis-hearing what they were saying until they said soemthing about tire pieces and golf balls...

what i thought was rather "facinating" was their "junk shot" idea... in this they pump all manner of stuff of varying sizes down into the BOP
to get it to stop up... things like pieces of tires, golf balls,
marbles, and such... the idea being to get large things in to the large holes and then plug the smaller holes with the smaller items and so on until it is all plugged up...

I don't see how a bunch of loose stuff is supposed to prevail
against the force of that oil rushing out of the well.

it'll get into the cracks where the oil is flowing out of and plug them... the larger ones would block the larger holes and make smaller ones... then the smaller stuff would block those smaller holes and make even smaller ones and so
on... kinda like taking a mix of gravel and sand in a jar... shake it and the smallest stuff goes to the bottom and the largest to the top with everything intermediate in between in layers according to size...

at least this oil isn't that thick sludge crap like what exxon released
in alaska...

Heres hoping *someone* comes up with something that works.
I don't really much care who.

i hear ya!

If it's stopped today it's still an unprecidented environmental
disaster.

yup but everything i've been seeing looks like it is cleaning up pretty well...
supposedly this oil makes a silvery sheen on the surface of the water but their
blockades and skimmers along with their dispersent seem to be doing the job of containing and removing the material... at least with skimming, they can still process and use it...

)\/(ark


* Origin: (1:3634/12)

Too bad no one from BP will read his suggestion.

you might be surprised about that... they get thousands of suggestions
and many of them are the same as what their own people have come
up with...

Even if they are willing to listen to suggestions from the public,
they have to weigh those suggestions against reality. Since it is
their necks on the line, I doubt they would be willing to try some
wild guess that a self-appointed expert comes up with.

i don't know why not... we/they are having to listen to some self-appointed expert(s) (you for one) saying that it won't work and that its a stupid idea ;)

/me wonders if folk might be better off reading the content and viewing the videos available on the BP site rather than sitting here playing armchair quarterback without a clue :? :rolleyes:

The armchair quarterbacking is coming from WC, DD and RS.

as well as you and others who deign to jump in and toss their two pesos into the mix... oh wait... i forget... you're only here to castigate and put down others... never mind...

)\/(ark


* Origin: (1:3634/12)

http://www.bp.com/

Oh well, doesn't work.

Their flash video link doesn't hook up with libflashplayer.so in Slackware GNU/Linux

oops... yeah... i had to install a firefox plugin on one of my machines... it isn't flash... it brings up winderz media player... looking at the page's source code, it is an x-mplayer2 mime type and it is being fed off of one of the akamai servers...

if you have something there that can play x-mplayer2 mine types, you may be able to shovel the source URL into it and see the stream... that source URL is

http://mfile.akamai.com/97892/live/reflector:46245.asx?bkup=46260

i typed that by hand reading it off the screen from another other machine... i hope i got it right... maybe MK in the linux echo will know of a media player that does x-mplayer2 mime or possibly a plugin that'll tie it into something you may already have... then again, maybe he won't as he seems to blame everything on "DOS-think" :? :(

)\/(ark


* Origin: (1:3634/12)

Now, watch them come back with "so. what's your suggestion?" as
if BP needs suggestions from people who have no earthly clue
about dealing with a spewing oil well a mile under the surface of
the Golf of Mexico.

uh... they /are/ taking suggestions from all points...

I doubt BP has anyone monitoring Fidonet..

they don't have to monitor fidonet... the messages are available on the 'net ;)

"BP Employee rings up their headquarters in Houston, hey guys, I
was logged onto a BBS, that claims to be on some sort of network

what's a "BBS"??

called Fidonet, in an echo, they said to do this....."

what's an "echo"?? hehehe...

as the cause. What they can't square with that is the fact that
shortly before the well exploded, Obama's administration gave
that well an award for safely.

where is this award mentioned? i've not seen anything about it...
since when does some presidential administration give awards for
corporate operations or some part of a corporation's operations? don't they have better things to do... like run the country??

Well they just did take charge of the operation, but are deferring
tp BP.

ok... but why try to blame everything on obama instead of seeing that it is simply gov't agencies doing their job and following their mandate??

)\/(ark


* Origin: (1:3634/12)

Not from idiots who think it can be frozen by pumping liquid
nitrogen into it.

bullshit, ed... they are taking suggestions from all points... whether
or not they consider or use them is another matter altogether...

I would think that the aeration and agitation would not a stable
plug make.

aeration? you mean the gaseous gasses that are coming out? how's that gonna be any different than what they're trying to do pumping "heavy mud" down the hole?
the gaseous gasses are still going to be there and mising in trying to force their way up and out the bore...

It shouldn't be hard for you to do a Google search of your own to
verify that the award was given.

i wouldn't have asked if i hadn't done the searches... since i did and found nothing, perhaps you'd care to actually post a URL to the
mention of said award??

I got plenty of hits using this search string in Google:

Oil rig given safety award

how about that... i didn't think to try a close to "natural language" phrase...
oh well...

I didnt pick a hit for you to read, figuring that you could pick
one you liked, now that I have steered you in the right direction..
LOL

right, left... it doesn't matter as long as the information being sought is located for consumption ;)

Uh... in BHO's case, he's not "run[ning] the country, he's
golfing, taking vacations, refusing to comment or answer hard
questions from the press and trying to bribe Congressmen to drop
out of primary races.

gee... ya think? sounds much like your hero(s)... if they can do it,
why not others?? double standards??

Except that that other President was villified by the same media
whom isnt saying Jack Squat about what this President is doing..

and so the catch-22 continues on with no one attempting to stop the vicious cycle and on it goes... much like the castigations seen in this and numerous other echos :? :(

and I might add, that if this President was GOP, or that if this
had happened during Dubya, there would have been screams of bloody
murder if said President was not on the Gulf Coast 5 seconds after
the rig sank.

and there's not now?

)\/(ark


* Origin: (1:3634/12)

On 05/29/2010 04:59 PM, mark lewis -> Ed Hulett wrote:

Too bad no one from BP will read his suggestion.

you might be surprised about that... they get thousands of suggestions
and many of them are the same as what their own people have come
up with...

Even if they are willing to listen to suggestions from the public,
they have to weigh those suggestions against reality. Since it is
their necks on the line, I doubt they would be willing to try some
wild guess that a self-appointed expert comes up with.

i don't know why not... we/they are having to listen to some self-appointed expert(s) (you for one) saying that it won't work and
that its a stupid idea ;)

Give it a rest.

/me wonders if folk might be better off reading the content and viewing
the videos available on the BP site rather than sitting here playing
armchair quarterback without a clue :? :rolleyes:

The armchair quarterbacking is coming from WC, DD and RS.

as well as you and others

Really? I haven't done anything of the sort. I've merely commented on WC and DD's notions of what would work. I let the real experts figure out how to get the job done.

who deign to jump in and toss their two pesos
into the mix... oh wait... i forget... you're only here to castigate and put down others... never mind...

And your purpose here is... ?

Ed

--
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Blogs: http://edsramblings.wordpress.com | http://woodcaringnsuch.wordpress.com http://edsscrollsawbits.blogspot.com | http://eds-omnium-gatherum.blogspot.com

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bullshit, ed... they are taking suggestions from all points... whether
or not they consider or use them is another matter altogether...

Apparently you are another who likes to argue for the sake of
argument.

bullshit... you don't know me... those who do know that i don't argue and i do not debate... i state things exactly as i see them and i don't hesitate to call
a spade a spade... understand?

if you don't work for them on this project, then don't speak like you
know what they are doing... you doing so is nothing more than armchair quarterbacking without facts or knowledge and it belittles you more than you try to do to others...

Huh? Where on earth do you get the silly armchair quarterbacking
idea? I haven't done any such thing.

then what do you call what you're doing WRT wayne's and other's ideas they've written about? oh, i'm sorry... you're not on the playing field so you aren't quarterbacking... instead you're sitting up on some high throne playing the part of a commentator and egging things on... my bad... i shouldn't have tried to elevate you to the lofty position of QB...

[trim]

It shouldn't be hard for you to do a Google search of your own to
verify that the award was given.

i wouldn't have asked if i hadn't done the searches... since i did and found nothing, perhaps you'd care to actually post a URL to the mention
of said award??

http://bit.ly/azgmqA

thank you... that wasn't so hard, was it? surely it took less time than it did for you to castigate me for not finding it when i did take the time to search ;)

Uh... in BHO's case, he's not "run[ning] the country, he's golfing,
taking vacations, refusing to comment or answer hard questions from
the press and trying to bribe Congressmen to drop out of primary
races.

gee... ya think? sounds much like your hero(s)... if they can do it, why not others?? double standards??

My heroes? Who would that be?

You just above claimed BHO was too busy running the country to give
awards for safety to an oil rig.

i claimed no such thing and i'll thank you to not go putting words in my mouth,
sir...

)\/(ark


* Origin: (1:3634/12)

I don't pretend to know more than the BP engineers like some people
here. I defer to their expertise instead of coming up with wild
guesses like you and Wayne.

if that's the case, then why call someone else's ideas stupid or go so far as to say that BP won't even consider it?? sure seems like you are pretending at something ;)

)\/(ark


* Origin: (1:3634/12)

Hello mark!

29 May 10 20:12, you wrote to me:

Well they just did take charge of the operation, but are
deferring tp BP.

ok... but why try to blame everything on obama instead of seeing that
it is simply gov't agencies doing their job and following their
mandate??

You might ask yourself as to why Bush was blamed for everything that went wrong
with Katrina.. Up to the insufficiency of the levee's..

==
Ross
Fidonet Feeds Or Fidonet In Your Newsreader: http://www.easternstar.info E-mail: ross(at)cassell(dot)us | Other Places: http://links.cassell.us
... Bigot: Anyone who's winning an argument with a Democrat.
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20060121
* Origin: The Eastern Star - Spartanburg, SC USA (1:123/456)

MARK LEWIS wrote to WAYNE CHIRNSIDE <=-

at least this oil isn't that thick sludge crap like what exxon released
in alaska...

Heres hoping *someone* comes up with something that works.
I don't really much care who.

i hear ya!

If it's stopped today it's still an unprecidented environmental
disaster.

yup but everything i've been seeing looks like it is cleaning up pretty well... supposedly this oil makes a silvery sheen on the surface of the water but their blockades and skimmers along with their dispersent seem
to be doing the job of containing and removing the material... at least with skimming, they can still process and use it...

Well the oil appears to be largely staying underwater due to the physics
and chemical reactions caused by the extreme water pressure or such is my understanding from my reading.

Oil spills from shallower wells have the heavy more toxic fractions
making it to the surface where the damage is profoundly and quickly realized.

In this deep water spill event it seems, again from my reading, that only
the lighter fractions for the most part are making it to the surface with the rest remaining well underwater.

No one has any experience with this exact type of situation
so it's anyones guess as to the ultimate consequences to the environment.

Hopefully this may mark a turning point forcing the population at large to realize the full costs of fossil fuels and push us to the greener and sustainable alternatives.

Alternative energy has always been an interest of mine and I've read and continue to read a great deal on the topic.

The naysayers are dead wrong that it is not currently viable.

That's propaganda in action with the media not giving coverage to realistic alternatives a great many of which could be implimented were there only less profit to be had squeezing the last buck out of oil.

Greg Palst the BBC Guardian News reporter of some note maintains the
Persian Gulf War II was fought to *limit* the amount of oil reaching the world markets in order to keep the price of oil at a high level for the enormous profits to be had.

He's at a obvious URL as well
www.gregpalast.com

Do I *know* he's right?
Of course not but he makes a compelling case for that view.


... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
* Origin: Doc's Place BBS Fido Since 1991 docsplace.tzo.com (1:123/140)

MARK LEWIS wrote to WAYNE CHIRNSIDE <=-

http://www.bp.com/

Oh well, doesn't work.

Their flash video link doesn't hook up with libflashplayer.so in Slackware GNU/Linux

oops... yeah... i had to install a firefox plugin on one of my
machines... it isn't flash... it brings up winderz media player...
looking at the page's source code, it is an x-mplayer2 mime type and it
is being fed off of one of the akamai servers...

Yeah I ought to look again and see if I can't get the exact link to the
video feed, copy it and redirect it into mplayer and see if I can view
it thataway.

if you have something there that can play x-mplayer2 mine types, you
may be able to shovel the source URL into it and see the stream... that source URL is

http://mfile.akamai.com/97892/live/reflector:46245.asx?bkup=46260

I was just saying above...

Thanks, this post saved to ~/url and now to try to redirect it or
possibly wget a fragment of the video.

i typed that by hand reading it off the screen from another other machine... i hope i got it right... maybe MK in the linux echo will
know of a media player that does x-mplayer2 mime or possibly a plugin that'll tie it into something you may already have... then again, maybe
he won't as he seems to blame everything on "DOS-think" :? :(

It should work in mplayer just fine.

I've other things occupying my mind just at the moment.

Thanks again for the input and most thanks for taking this off the severe personal flame bent this echo seems to be all about.

MK has be *the man* for me when it comes to the go to guy for
Linux whenever I got hung up.

... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
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Hello mark!

29 May 10 20:15, you wrote to me:

I would think that the aeration and agitation would not a stable
plug make.

aeration? you mean the gaseous gasses that are coming out? how's that gonna be any different than what they're trying to do pumping "heavy
mud" down the hole? the gaseous gasses are still going to be there and mising in trying to force their way up and out the bore...

Flash freezing something like that, would create the same phenomena, but on larger scale, as what you would see in an ice cube, when you see trapped air bubbles..

Not to mention that the cryogenic liquid used will introduce more gases as it returns to its natural state as it err warms..

As I said earlier, I am highly skeptical it would come close to working, but my
contention that anything created by such a freeze would lack the strength to hold anything back, and the top kill procedure seems to have failed as well.

i wouldn't have asked if i hadn't done the searches... since i
did and found nothing, perhaps you'd care to actually post a URL
to the mention of said award??

I got plenty of hits using this search string in Google:

Oil rig given safety award

how about that... i didn't think to try a close to "natural language" phrase... oh well...

I do searches like that all the time, only getting specific and using operators
when I want to filter out the chaff.

I didnt pick a hit for you to read, figuring that you could pick
one you liked, now that I have steered you in the right
direction.. LOL

right, left... it doesn't matter as long as the information being
sought is located for consumption ;)

I have long learned that if I picked something from a site that might be righto, the leftos will dismiss it.

But something of this nature shouldnt be political, after all, they either got the award or they didnt..

gee... ya think? sounds much like your hero(s)... if they can do
it, why not others?? double standards??

Except that that other President was villified by the same media
whom isnt saying Jack Squat about what this President is doing..

and so the catch-22 continues on with no one attempting to stop the vicious cycle and on it goes...

There is those double standards..

much like the castigations seen in this and numerous other echos :?
:(

The level of discourse mirrors that that is going on in the real world, being of our condensed size, its like coffee on the warmer too long, more concentrated. Before you worry too much about how Wayne for example gets treated, I suggest you consider the seeds he has sowed as well, before considering him a sweet innocent little victim.

If he wants to get enraged because I dont form my views and opinions the same as he does and arrive at the same conclusions, then stalks me, well you know me
well enough to know, I dont back off from them fights.

But the bottom line here is it takes two to tango, and no one in here, either side of the fence has clean hands.

and I might add, that if this President was GOP, or that if this
had happened during Dubya, there would have been screams of
bloody murder if said President was not on the Gulf Coast 5
seconds after the rig sank.

and there's not now?

Except that Bush caught more grief in a much shorter period of time during Katrina, hell Lofaso was glowing in the dark, meanwhile the same media held back far more with BHO.

==
Ross
Fidonet Feeds Or Fidonet In Your Newsreader: http://www.easternstar.info E-mail: ross(at)cassell(dot)us | Other Places: http://links.cassell.us
... Bigot: Anyone who's winning an argument with a Democrat.
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20060121
* Origin: The Eastern Star - Spartanburg, SC USA (1:123/456)

Well they just did take charge of the operation, but are
deferring tp BP.

ok... but why try to blame everything on obama instead of seeing that
it is simply gov't agencies doing their job and following their
mandate??

You might ask yourself as to why Bush was blamed for everything
that went wrong with Katrina.. Up to the insufficiency of the
levee's..

i don't need to ask why... the answer is the same as the answer to the above...

)\/(ark


* Origin: (1:3634/12)

Hello mark!

29 May 10 21:28, you wrote to me:

ok... but why try to blame everything on obama instead of seeing
that it is simply gov't agencies doing their job and following
their mandate??

You might ask yourself as to why Bush was blamed for everything
that went wrong with Katrina.. Up to the insufficiency of the
levee's..

i don't need to ask why... the answer is the same as the answer to the above...

Partisanship, its here to stay..

I warned Ross Sauer back after the 08 elections that he was going to find himself fighting the same defensive battles that those of us on the right fought, when Bush was in office. He didnt believe it, but reality is shaking him from his denials.

While Bush had his share of f'ups in his Administration, just look at Obama's 18 months in.

The Sestak affair is going to be interesting.

==
Ross
Fidonet Feeds Or Fidonet In Your Newsreader: http://www.easternstar.info E-mail: ross(at)cassell(dot)us | Other Places: http://links.cassell.us
... Bigot: Anyone who's winning an argument with a Democrat.
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20060121
* Origin: The Eastern Star - Spartanburg, SC USA (1:123/456)

Replying to a message of mark lewis to Ed Hulett:

as are you and many (most?) others who participate in most any
public venue... get over it, eh?

For someone who claims they don't argue merely for the sake of
argument, you certainly do go on.

but i'm not arguing :P :lol:

How old are you?

old enough to have retired from the USAF before i turned 40 and have
four grandchildren... how old are you?

I retired from the AF six days before my 39th birthday, Just about 20 years, 6 months, 11 days, 13 hours and 40 minutes of active service <g> That was a while back - I've been retired a LOT longer than I was in, I'll have been retired
27 years on December 1st of this year.


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Replying to a message of Dave Drum to Earl Croasmun:

"A lie told often enough becomes the truth. -- Vladimir Illich Ulyanov (1870 - 1924)

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for
such time as the State can shield the people from the political,
economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes
vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State. -- Joseph Goebbels (1897 - 1945)

For your store of miscellaneous information, Goebbels' given first name
was Paul. He preferred to use his middle name 'Josef'. He is usually
referred to as 'Josef Goebbels' or 'Joseph Goebbels.'

--- WtrGate/2 v0.93.p6 Unreg
* Origin: Bob's Boneyard, Emerson, Iowa (1:300/3)

Replying to a message of Ed Hulett to mark lewis:

On 06/03/2010 10:49 AM, mark lewis -> Ed Hulett wrote:

but i'm not arguing :P :lol:

How old are you?

old enough to have retired from the USAF before i turned 40 and have
four grandchildren...

You certainly don't act it. You act like you are in your teens.

now you see what i was seeing when i caught up on the 200+ echos my
system carries for fidonet ;)

I can't imagine why anyone would want to read that many echoes.

Less than a dozen of them have any significant amount of traffic.

--- WtrGate/2 v0.93.p6 Unreg
* Origin: Bob's Boneyard, Emerson, Iowa (1:300/3)

On 06/03/2010 03:21 AM, Bob Ackley -> Dave Drum wrote:

Replying to a message of Dave Drum to Earl Croasmun:

"A lie told often enough becomes the truth. -- Vladimir Illich Ulyanov
(1870 - 1924)

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will
eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for
such time as the State can shield the people from the political,
economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes
vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress
dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by
extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State. -- Joseph
Goebbels (1897 - 1945)

For your store of miscellaneous information, Goebbels' given first name was Paul. He preferred to use his middle name 'Josef'. He is usually referred to as 'Josef Goebbels' or 'Joseph Goebbels.'

He also credited Woodrow Wilson's propagandist, George Creel (head of Wilson's "Committee for Public Information" (CPI)) for showing how to manipulate information and mislead the people without their knowing.

It may have shock value to invoke Goebbels, but he only picked up where Woodrow
Wilson's CPI left off.

Ed

--
"The known propensity of a democracy is to licentiousness which the ambitious call, and ignorant believe to be liberty." --Fisher Ames, speech in the Massachusetts Ratifying Convention, 1788

Blogs: http://edsramblings.wordpress.com | http://woodcaringnsuch.wordpress.com http://edsscrollsawbits.blogspot.com | http://eds-omnium-gatherum.blogspot.com

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On 06/04/2010 09:53 PM, Richard Webb -> Ed Hulett wrote:

HI Ed,

On Fri 2038-Jun-04 19:16, Ed Hulett (1:123/789) wrote to mark lewis:

You're a dinosaur...

Been accused of bein' one o' them myself, with my straight
key opn the bench over here on the keyboard tray, and my old Hamarlund receiver behind me.

Heh heh heh... I have an old Nye straight key somewhere around here. I also have a Bencher Iambic. I haven't touched either for a long time.

No old receivers, though. :-)

<snip>

Ah ah ah... you participate, so you aren't just an enabler.

AS do most, we enable so that we can participate, helps us
justify it ya know <g>.

The anonymity of sitting in front of a keyboard and slinging insults long distance is an intoxicating concept that few have been able to resist.

<snip again>

Not all sysops have or do think that way. Some (have) just set up
their BBS and let it go. I remember when there were hundreds of
BBSes in the local BBS list kept by one of the locals here. Now,
there are maybe a dozen. I have no idea how many still carry FIDO. A
guy I worked with back in the late 70s and early 80s was the local
FIDO hub (Mark Blakely). I have no idea if he's still involved.

YEp, he's still in the nodelist, still has dial up too.
Crashed him netmail a few months ago.

Wow! I'm amazed he's still at it. I wonder if he still has the 2400 baud modem on his system. :-)

BAck in my fairly busy hub days we had those who did that
too, just got the board configured, plugged in fidonet or
their favorite qwk network and let it run. But, usually
their disinterest meant they didn't share the costs of
bringing in fidonet echoes reliably, so they had to seek
their feed elsewhere paying their own long distance charges. THeir users soon went elsewhere too, because when things
didn't work that the users expected then they got
disappointed. Yah yah I know, only a hobby and all that,
but the busy boards I always found were those whose sysops
paid attention, made sure that user options worked, cleaned
things up and even took the time to coach the newbies and
show 'em around a bit. But then, that was 1992-97 when
there were still a lot of newbies getting their first
computer, and their first modeming experience. Kinda like
ham radio used to be, the good ham radio clubs were those
with the ELmers that helped show the new guys the ropes, and in doing so recruited new active club members. THese days
too many folks just go to an instant ham class or two, or
even worse, just memorize by rote the correct answers to the multiple guess questions thanks to qrz.coom. THey learn
nothing about the culture of ham radio, or public service
operating or ...

I know what you mean. Back in my days of dialing up to local BBSes, there were only a few that I used regularly. One of those was a guy in Tacoma (Amocat BBS)
who compiled a BBS list on a monthly basis and was apparently one of the major nodes locally for FIDO. Oh, the halcyon days of dialup BBSes and offline readers.

THese days you can't get folks interested in something like
that. NO instant gratification available.

Yep.

Ed

--
"The known propensity of a democracy is to licentiousness which the ambitious call, and ignorant believe to be liberty." --Fisher Ames, speech in the Massachusetts Ratifying Convention, 1788

Blogs: http://edsramblings.wordpress.com | http://woodcaringnsuch.wordpress.com http://edsscrollsawbits.blogspot.com | http://eds-omnium-gatherum.blogspot.com

Facebook: http://wwwfacebook.com/ed.hulett | Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/yaesu

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On 06/04/2010 03:19 AM, Bob Ackley -> Ed Hulett wrote:

Replying to a message of Ed Hulett to mark lewis:

On 06/03/2010 10:49 AM, mark lewis -> Ed Hulett wrote:

but i'm not arguing :P :lol:

How old are you?

old enough to have retired from the USAF before i turned 40 and have
four grandchildren...

You certainly don't act it. You act like you are in your teens.

now you see what i was seeing when i caught up on the 200+ echos my
system carries for fidonet ;)

I can't imagine why anyone would want to read that many echoes.

Less than a dozen of them have any significant amount of traffic.

With web forums and chat on the internet, many people don't even know about FIDO.

Ed

--
"The known propensity of a democracy is to licentiousness which the ambitious call, and ignorant believe to be liberty." --Fisher Ames, speech in the Massachusetts Ratifying Convention, 1788

Blogs: http://edsramblings.wordpress.com | http://woodcaringnsuch.wordpress.com http://edsscrollsawbits.blogspot.com | http://eds-omnium-gatherum.blogspot.com

Facebook: http://wwwfacebook.com/ed.hulett | Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/yaesu

Linux User #416016
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HI Ed,

On Sat 2038-Jun-05 14:55, Ed Hulett (1:123/789) wrote to Richard Webb:

<snip>

You're a dinosaur...

Been accused of bein' one o' them myself, with my straight
key on the bench over here on the keyboard tray, and my old Hamarlund receiver behind me.

Heh heh heh... I have an old Nye straight key somewhere around here.
I also have a Bencher Iambic. I haven't touched either for a long
time.

Had an old key with the navy knob too until the after
Katrina fire.

No old receivers, though. :-)

I just acquired this old Hamarlund recently. I"m going to
eventually recap the whole thing, and find a vintage tx to
go with it.

<snip again>.

AS do most, we enable so that we can participate, helps us
justify it ya know <g>.

The anonymity of sitting in front of a keyboard and slinging insults
long distance is an intoxicating concept that few have been able to
resist.

NOt so much for that, but so that I can enjoy the
participation in the echoes. I provide access for a couple
of points, and one other listed FIdonet system. NOt like
the old days for sure <g>>

<snip>

YEp, he's still in the nodelist, still has dial up too.
Crashed him netmail a few months ago.

Wow! I'm amazed he's still at it. I wonder if he still has the 2400
baud modem on his system. :-)

I"d have to look through last year's logs, but think I at
least got a 14.4 connect when I crash mailed him. I don't
think I've seen "connect 2400" in my logs since i came back
up back in '08 or whenever it was <g>.

BAck in my fairly busy hub days we had those who did that
too, just got the board configured, plugged in fidonet or
their favorite qwk network and let it run. But, usually
their disinterest meant they didn't share the costs of
bringing in fidonet echoes reliably, so they had to seek
their feed elsewhere paying their own long distance charges. THeir users soon went elsewhere too, because when things
didn't work that the users expected then they got
disappointed.

I know what you mean. Back in my days of dialing up to local BBSes,
there were only a few that I used regularly. One of those was a guy
in Tacoma (Amocat BBS) who compiled a BBS list on a monthly basis
and was apparently one of the major nodes locally for FIDO. Oh, the
halcyon days of dialup BBSes and offline readers.

I had a lot of fun with it. I was the real info junkies'
and tech heads' bbs in southeastern Iowa. wHen in Central
Iowa I was a mail only, but a lot of the sysops up there
used to sic their wanna be point ops onto me, because i was
mail only, and the point ops wanted to become points to not
have to battle getting in around the door gamers, etc. I
actually started the bbs to induce some other boards to
start pulling fIdo when I moved to southeastern IOwa so that I could afford to bring it in <g>. I was on the road doing
sound stuff a lot too back in those days, so my co-sysop did a lot of the tidying up around.

THese days you can't get folks interested in something like
that. NO instant gratification available.

Yep.

I really do sound like an old fart I guess <g>.

73

Richard
--- timEd 1.10.y2k+
* Origin: (1:116/901)

...

The well was just converting to production when the explosion
occured.

so they hadn't even gotten off the pot (of exploration)
completely before the shit hit the fan :?

Uh... yeah... I think... maybe...?

Reminds me of the old story of the aerospace engineers going
over the drawings for a zero G toilet. It had a suction system
to draw off the waste.

One engineer sent another a copy of the drawing, with a note
saying, "Near as I can tell it's SUPPOSED to hit the fan."



BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

... "Oh bother!" said Pooh as the retros failed to fire.
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