On 4/2/2010 12:16 AM, Bob Klahn -> John Massey wrote:
* They don't want to have to defend the revelation that
Obama and his family will not be subject to the
restrictions, requirements and penalties of ObamaCare.
Uh... the president has his own medical team.
Like I said that he's exempt from his own program that he
is pushing on the rest of the country.
Only while he's in office. He don't get that medical team once
he's out of office.
The military is exempt also.
For that matter, anyone with employer provided insurance will
see little difference. What little they will see will be more
service.
Are you willing to defend the fact that Bush got gold plated
medical care while 45 million had no coverage, and limited care?
Bush is no longer president, I don't care what Bush did. I
care about what the current president is doing to the
United States.
IOW, it's all about Obama. Thanks for admitting it.
BTW, do you denounce Mitt Romney for writing and getting enacted
a program very much like this one?
* They don't want to have to explain how an insurance
company can charge lower premiums when its healthier
policy holders take a hike and they're forced to insure
people who are already sick.
That is why they have mandated coverage. The only other
alternative is single payer government medicine.
No Bob, that is not the only other answer.
I noted that in the next line.
Or do you prefer the alternative of uninsured Americans?
* They don't want a discussion on how our children and
grandchildren are going to pay off the massive debt
they will have to overcome courtesy of ObamaCare.
They won't have to worry, the massive debt going back through
Gwb to GHWB to Reagan will be enough to worry about.
Those debts will be peanuts compared to what Barack Obama
is going to settle this country with.
Reagan inherited a debt of 32.5% of GDP. He left a debt of 53%
of GDP. Bush I left a debt of 66% of GDP. Clinton left a debt of
57.4% of GDP. Bush left a debt of 90% of GDP. Obama is expected
to increase that to about 100% of GDP. About a 10% increase.
Clinton increase the actual debt by 33%. Bush more than doubled
it, increasing it by 123%. The reports I have seen say Obama's
wrost case is expected to double the debt over the next 8 years.
If he is reelected.
However, if the GDP grows at the same rate as the debt, which is
the other prediction, the percent of GDP will remain the same.
However you look at it, the debt the next generation will have
to pay will be almost all Reagan/Bush I/Bush II debt.
And given a revived economy that can be worked down again just
as it was after WWII. However, if the Fed goes into inflation
paranoia mode as they usually do, it will never be paid down.
Just my prediction.
Do you want to explain to your grandchildren why they are living
in a third world country, that used to be the United States of
America?
I don't have children.
Then you don't have to worry about it, do you.
See the tagline.
* They don't want to have to defend the gimmicks they
used to force the Congressional Budget Office to
falsely report that ObamaCare would reduce the deficit.
You mean the truth? Or how it will save $1 trillion a year if
it's pushed to match the Swiss most expensive national health
care in the world?
No Bob, I mean things like taking doc fix out of the
program and making it a separate issue, so it wouldn't be
considered under Obama care.
Since the "Doc Fix" was required in any case, it is not a
National Health care issue. It is not affected by the health
care reform law.
Things like putting the
college loan program under healthcare.
I don't know why they did that, but that is a good idea, however
they did it. Probably because the republicans were going to
sabatoge it if they got a chance.
The Democrats were
dishonest from the day they started this program. It's to
No, they were not. The started out to make a change, and they
made pretty much the change they started out to make. It was all
known before they started. The only thing different was what
they had to do to get it past the consevatives.
be expected. The fact that you believe them doesn't
surprise me one bit.
The fact that you don't doesn't surprise me. Nor does the fact
that you raise such meaningless objections.
...
* They don't want to discuss just why Democrats
absolutely refused to consider simple and easily
enforced private sector options, such as allowing
insurance companies to sell their policies across state
lines, before moving toward healthcare nationalization.
Possibly because insurance companies already can and do sell
health care policies across state lines. So you have zero score
on that one.
Sorry Bob, you are just flat out wrong
Oh? I recently got a letter from a company in Omaha offering me
health insurance. Before my employer switched my health
insurance came from Met Life, in NY City. In case you haven't
noticed, NYC is in NY State, not Ohio. And Omaha is in Nebraska.
Or was when I passed through there nearly 40 years ago.
They are both selling health insurance across state lines.
...
* They don't want to have to explain why Caterpillar
has already announced that as many as 1000 workers will
lose their jobs after the passage of ObamaCare.
They didn't? Caterpillar increased their employment in North
America by 4000 from 2007 to 2008, then dumped 10,000 North
American Employees, in 2009. If they are going to dump another
1000 they will use health care legislation as an excuse, but it
wasn't the reason last year, now was it.
Caterpillar announced a $100 million charge against earnings, on
a section that doesn't go into effect until 2014. They claim
they have to account for it immediately, but what they don't say
is the cost won't come due for years. And they also don't
mention the change is closing a tax loophole that let them
collect a subsidy from the govt on insurance benefits, then
deduct that subsidy as if they had paid the money themselves.
Now, do you support that fraud?
You're the one supporting fraud Bob. The benefits go into
effect in 2014, the taxes start coming out much sooner.
Which is not relevant to the Caterpillar issue. And some of the
benefits start this year. It is phase in, not all delayed.
The fraud is Caterpillar taking a $100 million reduction in
taxes for a govt subsidy. Which is like you collecting social
security, working and earning $100K/yr, and then deducting your
social security from your income at tax time. It don't work that
way. Not for us people, but for some big corporations it does.
And you call yourself a libertarian.
If you don't like the example of Caterpillar, then explain
why AT&T said they will lay off people because of Barack
Obama's health care plan. When you through defending AT&T
and telling me how they're lying about what they're doing,
They're not lying, they're whining. They are losing a piece of a
govt subsidy, and they think they are entitled. In the amount of
$1 billion/yr.
then you can move on to the whole list of other companies
that have come out and said this plan will cost jobs.
AT&T claims they will lose a $1 billion tax reduction. That is
also based on deducting the govt health care subsidy they are
getting under the medicare drug plan from their income.
I don't know what percentage they pay, but if it's 33% that's a
$3billion subsidy. At 25% it's a $4 billion subsidy. And so on.
Now just why do they get to deduct a gove subsidy from their
income for tax purposes?
And you call yourself a libertarian.
And those other companies are bleating about the same subsidy
deduction.
IOW, they got to pay less taxes because the govt gave them
money. Now that is ending and they are whining about it. Or
screaming like stuck pigs, a more appropriate version.
And you call yourself a libertarian.
BOB KLAHN
bob.klahn@sev.org http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn
... Don't tell me you are pro-life if you don't support health care for all.
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