I've been testing Windows 3.11 (WFWG actually) to see how far I could
push it. Sure, you can crash it, but after countless hours of tweaking
and configuring, I have it running 2 nodes of PCBoard with my tcp fossil
and Netware Client32 TCP/IP. Seems stable, good enough to use.

I use QEMM97 as the memory manager, Windows seems happy with it. Gives
me plenty of low memory inside each DOS box. After loading my tcp fossil
tsr, which takes only 15k, I still have plenty left for PCBoard:

Modules using memory below 1 MB:

Name Total Conventional Upper Memory
-------- ---------------- ---------------- ----------------
MSDOS 4,192 (4K) 4,192 (4K) 0 (0K)
QEMM386 784 (1K) 784 (1K) 0 (0K)
SETVER 496 (0K) 496 (0K) 0 (0K)
LOCATION 288 (0K) 288 (0K) 0 (0K)
LOADHI 112 (0K) 112 (0K) 0 (0K)
COMMAND 768 (1K) 768 (1K) 0 (0K)
WIN 2,480 (2K) 2,480 (2K) 0 (0K)
win386 7,408 (7K) 7,408 (7K) 0 (0K)
COMMAND 4,368 (4K) 4,368 (4K) 0 (0K)
TCPFOSS 15,680 (15K) 15,680 (15K) 0 (0K)
Free 618,048 (604K) 618,048 (604K) 0 (0K)

Memory Summary:

Type of Memory Total Used Free
---------------- ----------- ----------- -----------
Conventional 655,360 37,312 618,048
Upper 0 0 0
Reserved 0 0 0
Extended (XMS) 67,107,840 58,719,232 8,388,608
---------------- ----------- ----------- -----------
Total memory 67,763,200 58,756,544 9,006,656

Total under 1 MB 655,360 37,312 618,048

Total Expanded (EMS) 2,097,152 (2,048K)
Free Expanded (EMS) 2,097,152 (2,048K)
Largest executable program size 618,032 (604K)
Largest free upper memory block 0 (0K)
The high memory area is available.



604k low memory, 2meg EMS, 8meg XMS, and the HMA is available too, DOS
is loaded low. QEMM97 is good for that. And though not listed, Windows
provides DPMI memory too.

That's a lot of 16-bit territory to explore. Not that it's relevant to
the modern world in any way, most programmers could care less. But to me
it's fun.

What's the point if you can't have fun?

--- PCBoard (R) v15.4/M 250 Beta
* Origin: Torres Vedras - Portugal (2:362/6)

In a message dated 12-05-14, John Kelly said to All:

I've been testing Windows 3.11 (WFWG actually) to see how far I
could push it. Sure, you can crash it, but after countless hours of tweaking and configuring, I have it running 2 nodes of PCBoard with
my tcp fossil and Netware Client32 TCP/IP. Seems stable, good enough
to use.

I use QEMM97 as the memory manager, Windows seems happy with it.
Gives me plenty of low memory inside each DOS box. After loading my
tcp fossil tsr, which takes only 15k, I still have plenty left for
PCBoard:

I have never trusted Windows to run my BBS reliably but I did run it
under DOS/DeskView before testing it under OS/2.

Oh what a difference. DV was supposed to be a multitasking system but
never came close to a real multitasking operating system like OS/2.

604k low memory, 2meg EMS, 8meg XMS, and the HMA is available too,
DOS is loaded low. QEMM97 is good for that. And though not listed,
Windows provides DPMI memory too.

This is my latest BBS memory use under QEMM97 and DV:

Memory Type Total = Used + Free
---------------- -------- -------- --------
Conventional 640K 24K 616K
Upper 0K 0K 0K
Reserved 384K 384K 0K
Extended (XMS) 15 360K 7 680K 7 680K
---------------- -------- -------- --------
Total memory 16 384K 8 088K 8 296K

Total under 1Mb 640K 24K 616K

Total Expanded (EMS) 15 552K (15 925 248 bytes)
Free Expanded (EMS) 10 256K (10 502 144 bytes)

Total Extended (XMS) 15 360K (15 728 640 bytes)
Free Extended (XMS) 7 680K (7 864 320 bytes)

Largest executable program size 616K (631 008 bytes)
Largest free upper memory block 0K (0 bytes)
Available space in High Memory Area 20K (20 864 bytes)
PC DOS is resident in the high memory area.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Going below 615k free did result in unreliability.

That's a lot of 16-bit territory to explore. Not that it's relevant
to the modern world in any way, most programmers could care less.
But to me it's fun.

I have never had any reason to check the memory usage under OS/2.

Have a nice day,

Holger

___
* MR/2 2.30 * This OS/2 system uptime is 805 days 23:33 hours (en).


* Origin: Coming to you from the Sunny Aland Islands. (2:20/228)

I have never trusted Windows to run my BBS reliably but I did run it
under DOS/DeskView before testing it under OS/2.

I've crashed OS/2 many times. It's not as stable as some people like to
think. Windows 3.1 is just as good for running four nodes. You won't go
higher on OS/2, without degrading performance.

We can both run about 4 nodes. But OS/2 is more difficult to install and maintain. It has little or no real advantage.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.4/M 250 Beta
* Origin: Torres Vedras - Portugal (2:362/6)

In a message dated 12-07-14, John Kelly said to Holger Granholm:

Good morning John,

We can both run about 4 nodes. But OS/2 is more difficult to install
and maintain. It has little or no real advantage.

I agree on the 'maintain' in the second sentence. That's the reason so
many banks and offices (companies) switched to Windows. A crash in OS/2
is so rare that if you don't have a back-up on a cloned HD or a mirror
back-up it will be tedious to get the system up again while a Windows
crash happens so often that a child can get it running again.

The OS/2 installation is very straightforward and easy especially the
Warp 4 one because of the detailed information carried in the documen-
tation in the "Up and running with OS/2 version 4" book with detailed worksheets for different ways of set-up. Starting with v2.1 the install
was along the lines of any DOS program installation and improved along
the versions to Warp v4.

Of course if you need the hand-holding that Windows gives you things
may look different.

The advantage of OS/2 is the crash- and virus infection freedom.

If you have an UPS backup it can run over any power outage and if that
would fail to be sufficient it will automatically start up when power
returns.

The only difference is that it will run an automatic CHKDSK before the
system comes up again after a power outage in case you are not at home
to close down the system manually.

Seasons Greetings,

Holger

---
■ MR/2 2.30 ■ A mind is like a parachute - it only works when it's open
* Origin: Coming to you from the Sunny Aland Islands. (2:20/228)

a Windows crash happens so often

I've stress tested Windows 3.1 with two nodes of PCBoard, up and down
loading full throttle at the same time, and running a third DOS window compiling the PCBoard source. No crashes. No dropped characters.

The OS/2 installation is very straightforward and easy

OS/2 networking is a mess. MPTS, TCP/IP, and Peer, get tangled up and
throw errors at you, when you try to make changes after installation. I
see that time and again.

On my test box, OS/2 installation takes 10-15 minutes, without fixpaks.
But we know Warp4 is buggy without them, so we take more time.

OTOH, Windows 3.1 takes about 2 minutes. That's easy.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.4/M 250 Beta
* Origin: Torres Vedras - Portugal (2:362/6)

Re: Re: 640k
By: Holger Granholm to John Kelly on Mon Dec 08 2014 09:56:00

The OS/2 installation is very straightforward and easy especially the
Warp 4 one because of the detailed information carried in the documen- tation in the "Up and running with OS/2 version 4" book with detailed worksheets for different ways of set-up. Starting with v2.1 the install was along the lines of any DOS program installation and improved along
the versions to Warp v4.

The trouble with the OS/2 Warp installation was that it would not install. I tried numerous times. Same error each time. It simply did not see my CD drive. Tried different drive, same problem
--- SBBSecho 2.27-Win32
* Origin: The Lions Den BBS, Trenton, On, CDN (1:249/303)

In a message dated 12-09-14, Joe Delahaye said to Holger Granholm:

Hi Joe,

The OS/2 installation is very straightforward and easy especially the
Warp 4 one because of the detailed information carried in the documen- tation in the "Up and running with OS/2 version 4" book .........

The trouble with the OS/2 Warp installation was that it would not
install. I tried numerous times. Same error each time. It simply
did not see my CD drive. Tried different drive, same problem

I'm surprised to learn this because I have never exprienced difficulties
at installation. In 1995 I added a Hitachi CD-drive without problems and
later (-98) changed it to a Nakamichi 5-disk changer w/o problems again.

In the meantime I had also used a HP CD drive w/o problems.

I did use the Adaptec aspicd driver in both the two earlier instances,
then the Nakamichi was delivered with mjaspi drivers.

You had to be careful at the first installation that you didn't have
a HD over 2 Mb size. That was solved by installing OS/2 on a <2Mb
partition and after that formatting the rest of the HD.

Then came the Danis's drivers that solved the HD problem and later also
new drivers from IBM.

I have never tried to install OS/2 on anything else but SCSI systems.


CU L8ER, Sam, OH0NC

aka Holger

___
* MR/2 2.30 * Nothing is foolproof. Fools are SO ingenious!


--- PCBoard (R) v15.22 (OS/2) 2
* Origin: Coming to you from the Sunny Aland Islands. (2:20/228)

Re: Re: 640k
By: Holger Granholm to Joe Delahaye on Wed Dec 10 2014 09:37:00

I'm surprised to learn this because I have never exprienced difficulties at installation. In 1995 I added a Hitachi CD-drive without problems and later (-98) changed it to a Nakamichi 5-disk changer w/o problems again.

In the meantime I had also used a HP CD drive w/o problems.

I did use the Adaptec aspicd driver in both the two earlier instances, then the Nakamichi was delivered with mjaspi drivers.

You had to be careful at the first installation that you didn't have
a HD over 2 Mb size. That was solved by installing OS/2 on a <2Mb partition and after that formatting the rest of the HD.

Then came the Danis's drivers that solved the HD problem and later also new drivers from IBM.

I have never tried to install OS/2 on anything else but SCSI systems.

By the time I tried OS/2 I the only system that still had SCSSI drives was the BBS machine. The drive was likely bigger then 2 Mb but I was never able to get to that point. It simply would not read the CD. You started the setup with a floppy drive if I remember correctly, and then inserted the CD.
--- SBBSecho 2.27-Win32
* Origin: The Lions Den BBS, Trenton, On, CDN (1:249/303)

In a message dated 12-11-14, Joe Delahaye said to Holger Granholm:

GM Joe,

but I was never able to get to that point. It simply would not read
the CD. You started the setup with a floppy drive if I remember
correctly, and then inserted the CD.

Correct!

As they say, YMMV. I have installed OS/2 on various machines starting
with v2.1 up to Warp 4 and then FP12 always w/o any difficulties.

CU L8ER,

Holger

___
* MR/2 2.30 * "Sam", OH0NC - Aland Islands / 20 deg. E / 60 deg. N

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22 (OS/2) 2
* Origin: Coming to you from the Sunny Aland Islands. (2:20/228)

Re: Re: 640k
By: Holger Granholm to Joe Delahaye on Fri Dec 12 2014 09:47:00

but I was never able to get to that point. It simply would not read
the CD. You started the setup with a floppy drive if I remember
correctly, and then inserted the CD.

Correct!

As they say, YMMV. I have installed OS/2 on various machines starting
with v2.1 up to Warp 4 and then FP12 always w/o any difficulties.

CU L8ER,

I seem to recall reading something at the time that only specific CD drives would work as they were the only drivers included in the setup. I may be wrong after this many years. In any case I gave up after multiple attempts.

Season's Greetings
--- SBBSecho 2.27-Win32
* Origin: The Lions Den BBS, Trenton, On, CDN (1:249/303)

As they say, YMMV. I have installed OS/2 on various machines starting
with v2.1 up to Warp 4 and then FP12 always w/o any difficulties.

Maybe 20 years ago. But try finding such old hardware nowdays. It's rare
even on Ebay. With contemporary hardware, it's not so easy.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.4/M 250 Beta
* Origin: Torres Vedras - Portugal (2:362/6)

In a message dated 12-13-14, Joe Delahaye said to Holger Granholm:

Hi Joe,

As they say, YMMV. I have installed OS/2 on various machines starting
with v2.1 up to Warp 4 and then FP12 always w/o any difficulties.

I seem to recall reading something at the time that only specific CD
drives would work as they were the only drivers included in the
setup. I may be wrong after this many years. In any case I gave up
after multiple attempts.

In one of the manuals shipped with either Warp 3 or 4 there is a
discussion on installation considerations of various makes of CD drives.

There are a lot of drivers in the installation disks for various makes
but I have installed CD drives without any of them, just using Adaptecs aspicd.sys. My first installation with a Hitachi CD drive was using that

MRI XMAS,

de Sam, OH0NC

aka Holger

___
* MR/2 2.30 * If I melt dry ice, I can go swimming without getting wet.


--- PCBoard (R) v15.22 (OS/2) 2
* Origin: Coming to you from the Sunny Aland Islands. (2:20/228)

In a message dated 12-13-14, John Kelly said to Holger Granholm:

John,

As they say, YMMV. I have installed OS/2 on various machines starting
with v2.1 up to Warp 4 and then FP12 always w/o any difficulties.

Maybe 20 years ago. But try finding such old hardware nowdays. It's
rare even on Ebay. With contemporary hardware, it's not so easy.

What special "old hardware"?

Mind you, my latest two installations were made this year, one to a
laptop and one to a floor standing machine.

Anything else you want to know?


Merry Christmas,

Holger

___
* MR/2 2.30 * Right now I'm scheduled to be busy until 2 years after I die.



--- PCBoard (R) v15.22 (OS/2) 2
* Origin: Coming to you from the Sunny Aland Islands. (2:20/228)

Mind you, my latest two installations were made this year, one to a
laptop and one to a floor standing machine.

You failed to mention their vintage. In the tower for instance, what motherboard? IDE or SCSI? What disk controller, etc.

Anything else you want to know?

I know installing OS/2 is difficult, if not impossible, on most hardware
you can buy today. Hardly easy, as you claim. That's one reason OS/2 has
so few users. The few who remain, use mostly old hardware, vintage of an earlier era.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.4/M 250 Beta
* Origin: Torres Vedras - Portugal (2:362/6)

Re: Re: 640k
By: Holger Granholm to Joe Delahaye on Sun Dec 14 2014 09:22:00

In one of the manuals shipped with either Warp 3 or 4 there is a discussion on installation considerations of various makes of CD drives.

It was a long time ago, but I seem to remember something like that.

There are a lot of drivers in the installation disks for various makes
but I have installed CD drives without any of them, just using Adaptecs aspicd.sys. My first installation with a Hitachi CD drive was using that

If you used Scssi, then that is a different story. <G>
--- SBBSecho 2.27-Win32
* Origin: The Lions Den BBS, Trenton, On, CDN (1:249/303)

In a message dated 12-15-14, John Kelly said to Holger Granholm:

Anything else you want to know?

I know installing OS/2 is difficult, if not impossible, on most
hardware you can buy today. Hardly easy, as you claim. That's one
reason OS/2 has so few users. The few who remain, use mostly old
hardware, vintage of an earlier era.

Your knowledge isn't worth much but talk is cheap!


Merry Christmas,

Holger

---
■ MR/2 2.30 ■ Personal Computing ... A Terminal Disease.
* Origin: Coming to you from the Sunny Aland Islands. (2:20/228)

Your knowledge isn't worth much

You claimed to install OS/2 recently, but you won't provide hardware
details. Your claim that OS/2 is "easy" to install does not stand up to
the facts.

but talk is cheap!

Lacking facts, they make personal attacks. Trolls, they are.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.4/M 250 Beta
* Origin: Torres Vedras - Portugal (2:362/6)

On Wed, 17 Dec 2014, John Kelly wrote to Holger Granholm:

but talk is cheap!

Lacking facts, they make personal attacks. Trolls, they are.

attacks were started by one party and now they seem to simply be being returned... perhaps all involved need to just tone things done or make it obvious that joking and carrying on are being done with no animosity or ill will intended ;)

this is, actually, how the mess gets started in many message areas... fidonet is not the only place... usenet is horrendous with it because folks make a quip
without knowing the other party and things go south from there...

)\/(ark


* Origin: (1:3634/12)

In a message dated 12-16-14, Joe Delahaye said to Holger Granholm:

GM Joe,

There are a lot of drivers in the installation disks for various makes
but I have installed CD drives without any of them, just using Adaptecs aspicd.sys. My first installation with a Hitachi CD drive was using that

If you used Scssi, then that is a different story. <G>

Well, you wrote earlier that you also used SCSI and I supposed it was
when you ran or did setup the BBS.

Seasons Greetings,

Holger

___
* MR/2 2.30 * This is just a hobby. Perfection is not required. Fun is.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22 (OS/2) 2
* Origin: Coming to you from the Sunny Aland Islands. (2:20/228)

Re: Re: 640k
By: Holger Granholm to Joe Delahaye on Wed Dec 17 2014 09:42:00

If you used Scssi, then that is a different story. <G>

Well, you wrote earlier that you also used SCSI and I supposed it was
when you ran or did setup the BBS.

Indeed I did. 7 1Gb SCSSI Hard drives back in the early 90s. That was a lot of space back then <G>
--- SBBSecho 2.27-Win32
* Origin: The Lions Den BBS, Trenton, On, CDN (1:249/303)

attacks were started by one party

I challenged the truth of certain claims made, and asked for supporting
facts. That's not a personal attack.

and now they seem to simply be being returned...

No, they failed to respond with facts, and got personal. If factual
discussions offend them, they are free to leave.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.4/M 250 Beta
* Origin: Torres Vedras - Portugal (2:362/6)

In a message dated 12-17-14, John Kelly said to Holger Granholm:

Hello John,

You claimed to install OS/2 recently, but you won't provide hardware details.

It was a computer owned by another person. It was a Dell that had been delivered with Windows 7, 160Gb HD and 8Gb RAM.

Your claim that OS/2 is "easy" to install does not stand up to the
facts.

I installed OS/2 Warp 4 + FP12 on a new HD and let the customer use the
OS/2 Boot Manager to start whichever operating system he wanted.


Regards,

Holger

___
* MR/2 2.30 * Open Windows and let the bugs in.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22 (OS/2) 2
* Origin: Coming to you from the Sunny Aland Islands. (2:20/228)

On Thu, 18 Dec 2014, John Kelly wrote to Mark Lewis:

attacks were started by one party

I challenged the truth of certain claims made, and asked for
supporting facts. That's not a personal attack.

there were some comments made that were seen by several as attacks... i got several netmails about both sides of the conversation... that's all i'm saying about that... the publicly posted history is here for 3 years if anyone cares...

and now they seem to simply be being returned...

No, they failed to respond with facts, and got personal. If
factual discussions offend them, they are free to leave.

as is everyone else, too... i can easily have the area removed from the backbone and taken to private distribution... i don't want to do that but if folks can't be civil and not condescending to and sniping at each other, then that is what i will do... it is either that or just close the area altogether... that doesn't mean that the echolist listing will go away and be free for grabs, though ;)

i did echolist it and do what was needed to keep the area on the backbone for you and at least two others... please don't make me regret that decision...

)\/(ark
a moderator, PCBOARD


* Origin: (1:3634/12)

i can easily have the area removed from
the backbone and taken to private distribution...

The echo was working for me before you took over. I get no benefit from
your efforts.

if folks can't be civil and not condescending to and sniping
at each other, then that is what i will do... it is either that or
just close the area altogether...

If the echo dies, I can live without it.

that doesn't mean that the echolist listing will go away and be free
for grabs, though ;)

Don't be coy. Say what it does mean.

i did echolist it and do what was needed to keep the area on the
backbone for you and at least two others... please don't make me
regret that decision...

Thanks for thinking of me. But I don't support your moderation of
PCBoard. You don't even use it.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.4/M 250 Beta
* Origin: Torres Vedras - Portugal (2:362/6)

you won't provide hardware details.

It was a computer owned by another person. It was a Dell that had
been delivered with Windows 7, 160Gb HD and 8Gb RAM.

Your claim that OS/2 is "easy" to install

I installed OS/2 Warp 4 + FP12 on a new HD and let the customer use
the OS/2 Boot Manager to start whichever operating system he wanted.

I don't think you can do it on a hard drive > 137gb without modifying
the install disks. I'm willing to hear more details of the procedure you followed. People should know how "easy" it is.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.4/M 250 Beta
* Origin: Torres Vedras - Portugal (2:362/6)

On Fri, 19 Dec 2014, John Kelly wrote to Mark Lewis:

i can easily have the area removed from the backbone and taken to
private distribution...

The echo was working for me before you took over. I get no benefit
from your efforts.

and when the next purge of non-echolisted areas came, the echo would have been removed... you do get benefit even if you are/were not aware of it ;)

)\/(ark


* Origin: (1:3634/12)

In a message dated 12-18-14, Joe Delahaye said to Holger Granholm:

GM Joe,

Well, you wrote earlier that you also used SCSI and I supposed it was
when you ran or did setup the BBS.

Indeed I did. 7 1Gb SCSSI Hard drives back in the early 90s. That
was a lot of space back then <G>

Sure was and still today OS/2 Warp 4 occupies only 120 Mb for the OS
complete with GUI.

The early versions before Warp 3 didn't have much of a GUI However.

CU AGN de Sam, OH0NC

Merry Christmas,

aka Holger

___
* MR/2 2.30 * A PC takes guesswork out of it. So does a bikini.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22 (OS/2) 2
* Origin: Coming to you from the Sunny Aland Islands. (2:20/228)

i got several netmails about both sides of the conversation...

That's one of the things wrong with Fidonet. It encourages whiny
backstabbing netmail, from whiny backstabbing sysops.

All my remarks are public.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.4/M 250 Beta
* Origin: Torres Vedras - Portugal (2:362/6)

Re: Re: 640k
By: Holger Granholm to Joe Delahaye on Fri Dec 19 2014 09:34:00

Well, you wrote earlier that you also used SCSI and I supposed it
was when you ran or did setup the BBS.

Indeed I did. 7 1Gb SCSSI Hard drives back in the early 90s. That
was a lot of space back then <G>

Sure was and still today OS/2 Warp 4 occupies only 120 Mb for the OS complete with GUI.

The early versions before Warp 3 didn't have much of a GUI However.

Never saw much of OS2 prior to the Warp 3 and late versions. Even the large computer shows like Computex where IBM had a large presence, did not have a single machine running OS2. IBM had Windows installed on their computers.
--- SBBSecho 2.27-Win32
* Origin: The Lions Den BBS, Trenton, On, CDN (1:249/303)

The echo was working for me before you took over. I get no
benefit from your efforts.

and when the next purge of non-echolisted areas came, the echo would
have been removed...

Removed from what? The backbone? Or you mean nobody, nohwere, would see
it?

you do get benefit even if you are/were not aware of it ;)

Thanks for your efforts making it available to people. That is truly
helpful. But please leave it at that, and quit the moderators job. It's obviously a headache for you.

I volunteer. My only rules are:

a) No top posting. And trim your quoted text.

b) No repetitive or pointless profanity.

c) No spamming off topic ads, e.g, viagra, penile enlargement, etc.

d) No relentless off topic threads. Chit chat is not categorically
prohibited, but at some point it must die.

Other than that, I won't play Daddy in charge. With so little traffic
here, it's an easy job.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.4/M 250 Beta
* Origin: Torres Vedras - Portugal (2:362/6)

Re: 640k
By: John Kelly to Mark Lewis on Sat Dec 20 2014 18:59:00

Hiya Mark...

Other than that, I won't play Daddy in charge. With so little traffic here, it's an easy job.

LOL... the roy witt of z2... :)

--



Bill

Telnet: tequilamockingbirdonline.net
Web: bbs.tequilamockingbirdonline.net
FTP: ftp.tequilamockingbirdonline.net:2121
IRC: irc.tequilamockingbirdonline.net Ports: 6661-6670 SSL: 6697
Radio: radio.tequilamockingbirdonline.net:8010/live

... Look TWICE.... Save a life.... Motorcycles are EVERYWHERE!!
--- SBBSecho 2.27-Win32
* Origin: TequilaMockingbird Online - Toms River, NJ (1:266/404)

The early versions before Warp 3 didn't have much of a GUI

Never saw much of OS2 prior to the Warp 3 and late versions. Even
the large computer shows like Computex where IBM had a large
presence, did not have a single machine running OS2. IBM had Windows installed on their computers.

This off topic chit chat has become monotonous, and lost all relevance
to PCBoard. You are in violation of common sense and good manners.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.4/M 250 Beta
* Origin: Torres Vedras - Portugal (2:362/6)

On Fri, 19 Dec 2014, John Kelly wrote to Mark Lewis:

i got several netmails about both sides of the conversation...

That's one of the things wrong with Fidonet. It encourages whiny backstabbing netmail, from whiny backstabbing sysops.

right... and email from newsgroups is any different? i think not...

All my remarks are public.

in some areas, that is the way things are done... in others, some want to keep the laundry in private...

with that all said, i am NOT trying to wanting to control the discussions in this area... we're all adults here and we should be able to moderate ourselves... i elisted this area to keep it on the distribution systems that require such for them to carry areas... i don't care to try to push some mythical ""weight"" around... i accept public and private comments about situations related to the echo... in some cases, i may say something to one or all parties involved and that /may/ be in private or public... this is why i made the comment previously about having access to netmail...

and with all of that said, all i ask is that we are considerate of others and not condescending or down-right ugly or attacking of others... this area is not
a newsgroup and it should not fall into such as seen over there...

thank you for your understanding...

)\/(ark
(not wearing a moderator hat)


* Origin: (1:3634/12)

On Sat, 20 Dec 2014, John Kelly wrote to Mark Lewis:

The echo was working for me before you took over. I get no
benefit from your efforts.

and when the next purge of non-echolisted areas came, the echo would
have been removed...

Removed from what? The backbone?

the backbones that require echolisting for cartage over their links...

Or you mean nobody, nohwere, would see it?

if it were removed from the current links via the various backbones that carry it, yes, it would be cut off and no traffic would flow... at most would be private little separated islands... maybe confined to individual systems or possible clusters of interconnected systems...

you do get benefit even if you are/were not aware of it ;)

Thanks for your efforts making it available to people. That is
truly helpful. But please leave it at that, and quit the
moderators job. It's obviously a headache for you.

really? it hasn't been in all this time... it is only recently that anything close to moderation has been seen as desired...

I volunteer. My only rules are:

a) No top posting. And trim your quoted text.

b) No repetitive or pointless profanity.

c) No spamming off topic ads, e.g, viagra, penile enlargement, etc.

d) No relentless off topic threads. Chit chat is not categorically prohibited, but at some point it must die.

Other than that, I won't play Daddy in charge. With so little
traffic here, it's an easy job.

those are pretty close to those i post, aren't they?? i certainly don't want to
and never have tried to act like ""daddy in charge""... if you want the task and can maintain the echolisting, contact me in private and we can go from there... otherwise, perhaps we should maybe hold an election or something? that
hasn't been mentioned but i am not against to it...

)\/(ark


* Origin: (1:3634/12)

On Sat, 20 Dec 2014, Bill McGarrity wrote to Mark Lewis:

Hiya Mark...

Other than that, I won't play Daddy in charge. With so little
traffic here, it's an easy job.

LOL... the roy witt of z2... :)

hahaha... but he is located right here in Z1R18... used to be a node in my net,
1:3634/23 - Booby Trap - Jefferson SC - btbbs.sytes.net, until he decided to take a break (from fidonet??) for a while... now he posts from that system in Z2 :shrug:

)\/(ark


* Origin: (1:3634/12)

In a message dated 12-19-14, John Kelly said to Holger Granholm:

Hello John,

Your claim that OS/2 is "easy" to install

I don't think you can do it on a hard drive > 137gb without
modifying the install disks.

That's exactly what I have done a long time ago. It took some time to
get install working that way so it's not for the average user.

I'm willing to hear more details of the procedure you followed.

I changed one by one of the drivers provided by IBM to one of the
Danis's drivers until it worked. I didn't however remove the ones that
may have been unnecessary.

Regards,

Holger

___
* MR/2 2.30 * Me perfect? No! I'm just short of being totally incompetent


--- PCBoard (R) v15.22 (OS/2) 2
* Origin: Coming to you from the Sunny Aland Islands. (2:20/228)

LOL... the roy witt of z2... :)

Says the off topic Synchronet sysop. Go pester the Synchronet people
with your bloated sig ads.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.4/M 250 Beta
* Origin: Torres Vedras - Portugal (2:362/6)

with that all said, i am NOT trying to wanting to control the
discussions in this area... we're all adults here and we should be
able to moderate ourselves... i elisted this area to keep it on the distribution systems that require such for them to carry areas... i
don't care to try to push some mythical ""weight"" around... i accept
public and private comments about situations related to the echo...

Mark, you are in the small minority of sincere people left in Fidonet.
For that, you have my respect. Before now, I thought PCBoard didn't need
a moderator. But now that McGarity has started posting his off topic BS
here, maybe we do.

this is why i made the comment previously about having access to
netmail...

Luis upped my security level and now I can see a netmail conference. I
posted one to you a week or so ago, but seems it didn't go thru. Guess
he doesn't have that working yet.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.4/M 250 Beta
* Origin: Torres Vedras - Portugal (2:362/6)

those are pretty close to those i post, aren't they?? i certainly
don't want to and never have tried to act like ""daddy in charge""...

Sorry if that was offensive. But it seemed like you wanted the children
to all play nice. Sometimes they just need to fight.

if you want the task and can maintain the echolisting,

What's involved in maintainng the echolisting?

contact me in private and we can go from there...

I tried, but until Luis gets his outbound netmail working for users,
seems I can't. Unless I contact you directly via your BBS

otherwise, perhaps we should maybe hold an election or something?
that hasn't been mentioned but i am not against to it...

Maybe. But not just anybody qualifies as a candidate. A moderator needs
moral authority on the topic. That could be an active PCBoard sysop, or
someone who can at least compile the source.

Of that group, only three have posted here recently. Me, Holger, and
Jeff. So Holger and Jeff, speak up if you have any interest in the job.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.4/M 250 Beta
* Origin: Torres Vedras - Portugal (2:362/6)

I don't think you can do it on a hard drive > 137gb without
modifying the install disks.

That's exactly what I have done a long time ago. It took some time to
get install working that way so it's not for the average user.

Well that was my point. Sounds like we agree it's not easy.

Don't get me wrong. I'm glad you participate in this echo. The world
needs to hear from OS/2 users. Diversity is good.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.4/M 250 Beta
* Origin: Torres Vedras - Portugal (2:362/6)

Holger and Jeff, speak up if you have any interest in the job.

And Luis too. He has the best PCBoard BBS I know of. Maybe the best
qualified, though I suspect he may not want the job.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.4/M 250 Beta
* Origin: Torres Vedras - Portugal (2:362/6)

LOL... the roy witt of z2... :)

Says the off topic Synchronet sysop. Go pester the Synchronet people
with your bloated sig ads.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.4/M 250 Beta
* Origin: Torres Vedras - Portugal (2:362/6)

with that all said, i am NOT trying to wanting to control the
discussions in this area... we're all adults here and we should be
able to moderate ourselves... i elisted this area to keep it on the distribution systems that require such for them to carry areas... i
don't care to try to push some mythical ""weight"" around... i accept
public and private comments about situations related to the echo...

Mark, you are in the small minority of sincere people left in Fidonet.
For that, you have my respect. Before now, I thought PCBoard didn't need
a moderator. But now that McGarity has started posting his off topic BS
here, maybe we do.

this is why i made the comment previously about having access to
netmail...

Luis upped my security level and now I can see a netmail conference. I
posted one to you a week or so ago, but seems it didn't go thru. Guess
he doesn't have that working yet.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.4/M 250 Beta
* Origin: Torres Vedras - Portugal (2:362/6)

those are pretty close to those i post, aren't they?? i certainly
don't want to and never have tried to act like ""daddy in charge""...

Sorry if that was offensive. But it seemed like you wanted the children
to all play nice. Sometimes they just need to fight.

if you want the task and can maintain the echolisting,

What's involved in maintainng the echolisting?

contact me in private and we can go from there...

I tried, but until Luis gets his outbound netmail working for users,
seems I can't. Unless I contact you directly via your BBS

otherwise, perhaps we should maybe hold an election or something?
that hasn't been mentioned but i am not against to it...

Maybe. But not just anybody qualifies as a candidate. A moderator needs
moral authority on the topic. That could be an active PCBoard sysop, or
someone who can at least compile the source.

Of that group, only three have posted here recently. Me, Holger, and
Jeff. So Holger and Jeff, speak up if you have any interest in the job.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.4/M 250 Beta
* Origin: Torres Vedras - Portugal (2:362/6)

I don't think you can do it on a hard drive > 137gb without
modifying the install disks.

That's exactly what I have done a long time ago. It took some time to
get install working that way so it's not for the average user.

Well that was my point. Sounds like we agree it's not easy.

Don't get me wrong. I'm glad you participate in this echo. The world
needs to hear from OS/2 users. Diversity is good.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.4/M 250 Beta
* Origin: Torres Vedras - Portugal (2:362/6)

Holger and Jeff, speak up if you have any interest in the job.

And Luis too. He has the best PCBoard BBS I know of. Maybe the best
qualified, though I suspect he may not want the job.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.4/M 250 Beta
* Origin: Torres Vedras - Portugal (2:362/6)

In a message dated 12-20-14, Joe Delahaye said to Holger Granholm:

Hi Joe,

The early versions before Warp 3 didn't have much of a GUI However.

Never saw much of OS2 prior to the Warp 3 and late versions. Even
the large computer shows like Computex where IBM had a large
presence, did not have a single machine running OS2. IBM had
Windows installed on their computers.

Very few know about OS/2 and it's a pity. Another operating system that disappeared was the Amiga. It was a very good OS with a bright future
but it stumbled on the opinion that Amiga's were only for playing games.

My GS had an Amiga 500 and I got aquinted with its CLI and Shell.
The latter was named Workbench 1.3.

CU AGN es,

Merry Christmas,

Holger

___
* MR/2 2.30 * So easy, a child could do it. Linux given away separately - free.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22 (OS/2) 2
* Origin: Coming to you from the Sunny Aland Islands. (2:20/228)

In a message dated 12-20-14, mark lewis said to John Kelly:

Hello Mark,

Other than that, I won't play Daddy in charge. With so little
traffic here, it's an easy job.

contact me in private and we can go from there... otherwise, perhaps otherwise perhaps we should maybe hold an election or something?
that hasn't been mentioned but i am not against to it...

Please save us from another Roy Witt type moderator.
That would kill the echo without removing it from the backbone.

Happy Holidays,

Holger

---
■ MR/2 2.30 ■ What is OS/2 in spanish - dos DOS?
* Origin: Coming to you from the Sunny Aland Islands. (2:20/228)

On 12-21-14 17:28, John Kelly wrote to Bill McGarrity <=-

LOL... the roy witt of z2... :)

Says the off topic Synchronet sysop. Go pester the Synchronet people
with your bloated sig ads.

LOL.... you just proved your wittless.

Enjoy!!


Bill

Telnet: tequilamockingbirdonline.net
Web: bbs.tequilamockingbirdonline.net
FTP: ftp.tequilamockingbirdonline.net:2121
IRC: irc.tequilamockingbirdonline.net Ports: 6661-6670 SSL: +6697
Radio: radio.tequilamockingbirdonline.net:8010/live


... Look Twice... Save a Life!! Motorcycles are Everywhere!!!
=== MultiMail/Win32 v0.50
--- SBBSecho 2.27-Win32
* Origin: TequilaMockingbird Online - Toms River, NJ (1:266/404)

Re: 640k
By: John Kelly to Bill McGarrity on Sun Dec 21 2014 17:28:00

Says the off topic Synchronet sysop. Go pester the Synchronet people
with your bloated sig ads.

You really do have a problem. Why is h e off topic? I would think no more they you are.
--- SBBSecho 2.27-Win32
* Origin: The Lions Den BBS, Trenton, On, CDN (1:249/303)

Re: 640k
By: John Kelly to Mark Lewis on Sun Dec 21 2014 18:06:00

Maybe. But not just anybody qualifies as a candidate. A moderator needs moral authority on the topic. That could be an active PCBoard sysop, or someone who can at least compile the source.

Of that group, only three have posted here recently. Me, Holger, and
Jeff. So Holger and Jeff, speak up if you have any interest in the job.

There you are wrong. A moderator only needs to keep peace in the echo. He/she does not even need to have a working knowledge of the subject of the echo. It would help to some degree, but it is not necessary. You are referring to those people still running the software only. There are many of us here no doubt, who ran the software in its heyday. Contrary to your skewed view of this, we are still interested. As I mentioned previously, I, and probably others, would go back to something we know intimately, if it would run on modern hardware, and do modern things. You may not think so, and your statement to me about that, was rather offensive.
--- SBBSecho 2.27-Win32
* Origin: The Lions Den BBS, Trenton, On, CDN (1:249/303)

In a message dated 12-21-14, John Kelly said to Bill Mcgarrity:

LOL... the roy witt of z2... :)

Says the off topic Synchronet sysop. Go pester the Synchronet people
with your bloated sig ads.

If that would be the way you would moderate PCBOARD I say NO THANKS!

Regards,

Holger

___
* MR/2 2.30 * This OS/2 system uptime is 821 days 18:24 hours (en).

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22 (OS/2) 2
* Origin: Coming to you from the Sunny Aland Islands. (2:20/228)

Holger Granholm wrote to Joe Delahaye <=-

Very few know about OS/2 and it's a pity. Another operating system that disappeared was the Amiga. It was a very good OS with a bright future
but it stumbled on the opinion that Amiga's were only for playing
games.

It's a pity, too, that Serenity Systems doesn't market eComStation as much as
I think they should.

... Got my tie caught in the fax... Suddenly I was in L.A.
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.50
* Origin: Omicron Theta | Memphis, TN | winserver.us (1:116/18)

Other than that, I won't play Daddy in charge. With so little traffic here, it's an easy job.

LOL... the roy witt of z2... :)

God, why do I want to laugh at this :)

... What happens when you get scared half to death.....twice?
--- Wildcat! v6.4.454.2 (Nov 17 2011), Editor Mod v1.7
* Origin: Omicron Theta | Memphis, TN | winserver.us (1:116/18)

On 01-06-15 20:32, ROBERT WOLFE wrote to Bill McGarrity <=-

Other than that, I won't play Daddy in charge. With so little traffic here, it's an easy job.

LOL... the roy witt of z2... :)

God, why do I want to laugh at this :)

It has merit??? ;)


Bill

Telnet: tequilamockingbirdonline.net
Web: bbs.tequilamockingbirdonline.net
FTP: ftp.tequilamockingbirdonline.net:2121
IRC: irc.tequilamockingbirdonline.net Ports: 6661-6670 SSL: +6697
Radio: radio.tequilamockingbirdonline.net:8010/live


... Look Twice... Save a Life!!! Motorcycles are Everywhere!!
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.50
--- SBBSecho 2.12-Win32
* Origin: TequilaMockingbird Online - Toms River, NJ (1:266/404)

LOL... the roy witt of z2... :)

hahaha...

An off topic personal attack, with no substance whatsoever, is funny to
the moderator?

Well now I see. You're part of the problem, not the solution. We have
nothing further to discuss.

If this is the best Fidonet can offer, its failure is complete.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.4/M 250 Beta
* Origin: Torres Vedras - Portugal (2:362/6)

On Mon, 22 Dec 2014, John Kelly wrote to Mark Lewis:

LOL... the roy witt of z2... :)

hahaha...

An off topic personal attack, with no substance whatsoever, is
funny to the moderator?

was i wearing my moderator hat when that was written? no, i wasn't... at that time i was just another member of the group... whatever...

)\/(ark


* Origin: (1:3634/12)