• Makenl and bad segments...

    From Janis Kracht@1:261/38 to All on Thu Dec 11 14:11:58 2014
    Yesterday I received a new seg from R13, but it was obviously corrupted somewhere along the way such that the segment was full of non-printable high-ascii garbage.

    When I ran the dailylist last night, makenl left R13 out of the Zone1 dailylist.


    Shouldn't makenl_ng have just selected the previous day's segment for R13 if "today's" segment was bad or not present?

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Dada-2
    * Origin: Prism bbs (1:261/38)
  • From Andrew Leary@1:320/219 to Janis Kracht on Thu Dec 11 15:50:30 2014
    Hello Janis!

    11 Dec 14 14:11, you wrote to all:

    Yesterday I received a new seg from R13, but it was obviously
    corrupted somewhere along the way such that the segment was full of non-printable high-ascii garbage.

    When I ran the dailylist last night, makenl left R13 out of the Zone1 dailylist.

    Shouldn't makenl_ng have just selected the previous day's segment for
    R13 if "today's" segment was bad or not present?

    Can you provide logfiles so I can investigate this further?

    Andrew


    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20130910
    * Origin: Phoenix BBS * phoenix.bnbbbs.net:2323 (1:320/219)
  • From Janis Kracht@1:261/38 to Andrew Leary on Thu Dec 11 16:48:44 2014
    Hi Andrew,

    11 Dec 14 14:11, you wrote to all:

    Yesterday I received a new seg from R13, but it was obviously
    corrupted somewhere along the way such that the segment was full of
    non-printable high-ascii garbage.

    When I ran the dailylist last night, makenl left R13 out of the Zone1
    dailylist.

    Shouldn't makenl_ng have just selected the previous day's segment for
    R13 if "today's" segment was bad or not present?

    Can you provide logfiles so I can investigate this further?

    Sure, Andrew, I'll send them over. Thanks :)

    Take care,
    Janis

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Dada-2
    * Origin: Prism bbs (1:261/38)
  • From Andrew Leary@1:320/119 to Janis Kracht on Thu Dec 11 18:34:18 2014
    Hello Janis!

    Thursday December 11 2014 16:48, Janis Kracht wrote to Andrew Leary:

    Shouldn't makenl_ng have just selected the previous day's segment
    for R13 if "today's" segment was bad or not present?

    Can you provide logfiles so I can investigate this further?

    Sure, Andrew, I'll send them over. Thanks :)

    Got them. NetMail on it's way to you for more info.

    Andrew

    ---
    * Origin: Bits & Bytes BBS * V.Everything! * 860/535-4284 (1:320/119)
  • From Benny Pedersen@2:230/38.1 to Janis Kracht on Fri Dec 12 01:34:34 2014
    Hello, Janis Kracht.
    On 11/12/14 14.11 you wrote:

    Yesterday I received a new seg from R13, but it was obviously
    corrupted somewhere along the way such that the segment was full
    of non-printable high-ascii garbage.

    Allow8bit ?

    When I ran the dailylist last night, makenl left R13 out of the
    Zone1 dailylist.

    Not just ;E lines ?

    Shouldn't makenl_ng have just selected the previous day's segment
    for R13 if "today's" segment was bad or not present?

    I think errflags catch all bugs in z2 :)

    But yes, 8bit is not always good :(

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    Opus, da da da, german humor

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  • From Benny Pedersen@2:230/38.1 to Andrew Leary on Fri Dec 12 01:36:02 2014
    Hello, Andrew Leary.
    On 11/12/14 18.34 you wrote:

    Sure, Andrew, I'll send them over. Thanks :)
    Got them. NetMail on it's way to you for more info.

    Sad other nc does not benefit from netmail :(

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  • From Andrew Leary@1:320/119 to Benny Pedersen on Thu Dec 11 22:13:40 2014
    Hello Benny!

    Friday December 12 2014 01:36, Benny Pedersen wrote to Andrew Leary:

    Sure, Andrew, I'll send them over. Thanks :)
    Got them. NetMail on it's way to you for more info.

    Sad other nc does not benefit from netmail :(

    At this point, the issue appears to have happened on Janis' system. I'm attempting to gather information that will allow me to reproduce the issue, so that it can be fixed.

    Janis has already contacted the coordinator involved.

    Regards,

    Andrew

    ---
    * Origin: Bits & Bytes BBS * V.Everything! * 860/535-4284 (1:320/119)
  • From Janis Kracht@1:261/38 to Andrew Leary on Wed Dec 31 13:24:18 2014
    Hi Andrew,

    At this point, the issue appears to have happened on Janis' system. I'm
    attempting to gather information that will allow me to reproduce the issue, so
    that it can be fixed.

    Janis has already contacted the coordinator involved.

    And there have been no problems since, just wanted to let you know. :)

    Happy New Year to all :)

    Take care,
    Janis

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Dada-2
    * Origin: Prism bbs (1:261/38)
  • From Andrew Leary@1:320/219 to Janis Kracht on Wed Dec 31 20:21:35 2014
    Hello Janis!

    31 Dec 14 13:24, you wrote to me:

    At this point, the issue appears to have happened on Janis' system.
    I'm attempting to gather information that will allow me to reproduce
    the issue, so that it can be fixed.

    Janis has already contacted the coordinator involved.

    And there have been no problems since, just wanted to let you know.
    :)

    Good. I have not been able to reproduce the circumstances that led to the corrupted segment file. However, I am looking at the logic for handling update files, to ensure that the segment in the master directory is not overwritten until the update is validated as correct.

    Happy New Year to all :)

    The same to you, Janis.

    Andrew

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20130910
    * Origin: Phoenix BBS * phoenix.bnbbbs.net:2323 (1:320/219)
  • From Kees van Eeten@2:280/5003.4 to Andrew Leary on Thu Jan 1 11:58:02 2015
    Hello Andrew!

    31 Dec 14 20:21, you wrote to Janis Kracht:

    Good. I have not been able to reproduce the circumstances that led to the corrupted segment file. However, I am looking at the logic for handling update files, to ensure that the segment in the master directory is not overwritten until the update is validated as correct.

    Although I applaud that the update is validated, be aware that that
    requires that the update is generated by makenl. Some RC's collate their
    segement by other means and do not provide a valid CRC in the first line.

    On the other hand, it would force the nodelist administrators to subit a
    proper segement. There are tools, that can do a validation and deliver
    a proper file, quite irrespective of what is submitted.

    Kees

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5
    * Origin: As for me, all I know is that, I know nothing. (2:280/5003.4)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Kees van Eeten on Thu Jan 1 14:06:59 2015
    Kees,

    Although I applaud that the update is validated, be aware that that requires that the update is generated by makenl. Some RC's collate their segement by other means and do not provide a valid CRC in the first
    line.

    Running it through ERRFLAGS prior to submitting would take care of that.

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99
    * Origin: Many Glacier / Protect - Preserve - Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Andrew Leary@1:320/119 to Kees van Eeten on Thu Jan 1 12:19:28 2015
    Hello Kees!

    Thursday January 01 2015 11:58, Kees van Eeten wrote to Andrew Leary:

    Good. I have not been able to reproduce the circumstances that
    led to the corrupted segment file. However, I am looking at the
    logic for handling update files, to ensure that the segment in
    the master directory is not overwritten until the update is
    validated as correct.

    Although I applaud that the update is validated, be aware that that
    requires that the update is generated by makenl. Some RC's collate
    their segement by other means and do not provide a valid CRC in the
    first line.

    By validated as correct, I mean processed without error. ie: no duplicate numbers, invalid baud rates, phone numbers with too few parts, etc. MakeNL does not require segments to have CRC entries in the first line. I am considering adding FSC-0055 (password protected updates) support to MakeNL, and
    while I'm in there it's probably worth checking the CRC value if present, and rejecting the file if either the CRC or password doesn't match.

    Andrew

    ---
    * Origin: Bits & Bytes BBS * V.Everything! * 860/535-4284 (1:320/119)
  • From Benny Pedersen@2:230/38.1 to Ward Dossche on Fri Jan 2 13:49:58 2015
    Hello, Ward Dossche.
    On 01/01/15 14.06 you wrote:

    Although I applaud that the update is validated, be aware that
    that requires that the update is generated by makenl. Some RC's
    collate their segement by other means and do not provide a valid
    CRC in the first line.
    Running it through ERRFLAGS prior to submitting would take care of
    that.

    my wish for 2015 is to see makenl does not create invalid nodelists, errflags is good, but that programing should have being added to makenl long time ago

    i think if error flags was coded in c then it would have being done when the code was shown, or if makenl was coded in pascal it would happend aswell very fast joining

    when there is 2 programs there will always be more then one error to fix, if there was just one program it would be less error

    oh well Gordon Ramsey, Jammie Oliver cooks better then i do :)

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  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Benny Pedersen on Fri Jan 2 15:57:55 2015
    my wish for 2015 is to see makenl does not create invalid nodelists, errflags is good, but that programing should have being added to makenl long time ago

    I will count on my North American brethren and sistern to laugh that away...

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99
    * Origin: Many Glacier / Protect - Preserve - Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Kees van Eeten@2:280/5003.4 to Benny Pedersen on Fri Jan 2 15:57:12 2015
    Hello Benny!

    02 Jan 15 13:49, you wrote to Ward Dossche:

    my wish for 2015 is to see makenl does not create invalid nodelists, errflags is good, but that programing should have being added to makenl long time ago

    I have looked at making corrections for general errors, that have an easy
    algorithm to correct in a preprocessor like e.g. ERRFLAGS.

    Errors like there was in R25 in the previous nodelist, where a comma was
    missing at the beginning of the line.

    If you follow the nodelist over a long period of time you will find more
    errors, that are correctable by a simple rule.

    The general reaction to inclusion is, that a higher level C should not make
    any changes to the segments offered for inclusion.

    In a way this makes sense. The lower level C knows, that he submits a segment
    with errors, or ignores the results of the testrun, that is available to him.

    ERRFLAGS makes some cosmetic changes and can enforce the allowed flags for
    the Zone or lower level. It cannot be used on a full nodelist, where there
    are different rules on the use of flags.

    Kees

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5
    * Origin: As for me, all I know is that, I know nothing. (2:280/5003.4)
  • From Benny Pedersen@2:230/0 to Ward Dossche on Fri Jan 2 16:55:30 2015
    Hello Ward!

    02 Jan 2015 15:57, Ward Dossche wrote to Benny Pedersen:

    I will count on my North American brethren and sistern to laugh that away...

    keep smiling :)


    Regards Benny

    ... there can only be one way of life, and it works :)

    --- Msged/LNX 6.2.0 (Linux/3.17.7-gentoo (i686))
    * Origin: duggi.junc.org where qico is waiting (2:230/0)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Kees van Eeten on Fri Jan 2 18:12:30 2015
    Kees,

    The general reaction to inclusion is, that a higher level C should not
    make any changes to the segments offered for inclusion.

    I tend to disagree.

    When I became ZC in 1994 auto-correction of segments in Z2 was already part of the deal by the then previous-ZC. I think it started with Felix Kasza.

    It's been happening for at least 24 years so why the FTSC has not documented this as "current practice" really escapes me.

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99
    * Origin: Many Glacier / Protect - Preserve - Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Ward Dossche on Fri Jan 2 18:26:26 2015
    It's been happening for at least 24 years so why the FTSC has not documented this as "current practice" really escapes me.

    Just write a proposal and submit it to the FTSC and we'll try to evaluate the merits of it.

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    * Origin: news://felten.yi.org (2:203/2)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Björn Felten on Fri Jan 2 20:26:03 2015
    It's been happening for at least 24 years so why the FTSC has not
    documented this as "current practice" really escapes me.

    Just write a proposal and submit it to the FTSC and we'll try to
    evaluate the merits of it.

    My headaches are totally different than the ones of FTSC-members.

    Besides, Roy claims I can't spell.

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99
    * Origin: Many Glacier / Protect - Preserve - Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12 to Kees van Eeten on Fri Jan 2 16:40:42 2015

    On Fri, 02 Jan 2015, Kees van Eeten wrote to Benny Pedersen:

    The general reaction to inclusion is, that a higher level C
    should not make any changes to the segments offered for
    inclusion.

    In a way this makes sense. The lower level C knows, that he
    submits a segment with errors, or ignores the results of the
    testrun, that is available to him.

    errrmmm... there are/were many *Cs that manually maintained their segments in a
    plain old text editor with no assistance from any software... there is no guarrantee that they had any sort of ""testrun"" or "validation" of their segment other than that returned by the next *C up the chain... those *Cs should be able to edit the submitted segment to fix it so as to ensure that the
    net or region covered by the broken segment is not left out of their segment being passed on upstream...

    let's not fall into the fallacy that everyone can even run makenl or any other nodelist tool or that they even have the desire to do so...

    )\/(ark


    * Origin: (1:3634/12)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12 to Ward Dossche on Fri Jan 2 16:44:22 2015

    On Fri, 02 Jan 2015, Ward Dossche wrote to Kees van Eeten:

    The general reaction to inclusion is, that a higher level C should not
    make any changes to the segments offered for inclusion.

    I tend to disagree.

    When I became ZC in 1994 auto-correction of segments in Z2 was
    already part of the deal by the then previous-ZC. I think it
    started with Felix Kasza.
    It's been happening for at least 24 years so why the FTSC has not documented this as "current practice" really escapes me.

    seems to me that it is a "political" or "local operations" thing... the FTSC doesn't document how fidonet works or how it uses the technology available... the FTSC only documents fidonet technology...

    )\/(ark


    * Origin: (1:3634/12)
  • From Kees van Eeten@2:280/5003.4 to mark lewis on Sat Jan 3 00:57:28 2015
    Hello mark!

    02 Jan 15 16:40, you wrote to me:

    in a plain old text editor with no assistance from any software... there is no guarrantee that they had any sort of ""testrun"" or "validation" of their segment other than that returned by the next *C up the chain... those *Cs should be able to edit the submitted segment to fix it so as to ensure that the net or region covered by the broken segment is not left out of their segment being passed on upstream...

    let's not fall into the fallacy that everyone can even run makenl or any other nodelist tool or that they even have the desire to do so...

    Noblesse oblige.

    Kees

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5
    * Origin: As for me, all I know is that, I know nothing. (2:280/5003.4)
  • From Joe Delahaye@1:249/303 to Ward Dossche on Fri Jan 2 19:58:50 2015
    Re: Re: Makenl and bad segments...
    By: Ward Dossche to Kees van Eeten on Fri Jan 02 2015 18:12:30

    When I became ZC in 1994 auto-correction of segments in Z2 was already part of the deal by the then previous-ZC. I think it started with Felix Kasza.


    It's been happening for at least 24 years so why the FTSC has not documented this as "current practice" really escapes me.


    Perhaps because it was ONLY being done in Z2, and no other zone?
    --- SBBSecho 2.27-Win32
    * Origin: The Lions Den BBS, Trenton, On, CDN (1:249/303)
  • From Benny Pedersen@2:230/38.1 to Ward Dossche on Sat Jan 3 03:11:44 2015
    Hello, Ward Dossche.
    On 02/01/15 20.26 you wrote:

    My headaches are totally different than the ones of FTSC-members.
    its just best pratice, not must
    Besides, Roy claims I can't spell.
    not alone here either

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  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Joe Delahaye on Sat Jan 3 07:07:47 2015
    Joe,

    It's been happening for at least 24 years so why the FTSC has not
    documented this as "current practice" really escapes me.

    Perhaps because it was ONLY being done in Z2, and no other zone?

    2 things come to mind:

    * The FTSC has documented pet projects of individual members in the past with
    absolute zero-relevance. There even is the case of someone who got himself
    elected years ago to push something through that no-one cared about and
    then quit.

    * If something is being done all over zone-2 then it is relevant

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99
    * Origin: Many Glacier / Protect - Preserve - Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Joe Delahaye@1:249/303 to Ward Dossche on Sat Jan 3 11:10:15 2015
    Re: Re: Makenl and bad segments...
    By: Ward Dossche to Joe Delahaye on Sat Jan 03 2015 07:07:47

    Perhaps because it was ONLY being done in Z2, and no other zone?

    2 things come to mind:

    * The FTSC has documented pet projects of individual members in the past with
    absolute zero-relevance. There even is the case of someone who got
    himself
    elected years ago to push something through that no-one cared about and then quit.

    I have no doubt about that. That however is political, and not technical.


    * If something is being done all over zone-2 then it is relevant

    It is still ONLY Z2 and not the other 3 zones. Aside from that Ward, it is only the ZC of that one zone doing so, so that makes it one out of 4, unless more of the other zones (yeah I know what you think of Z4), makes it 50% <G> --- SBBSecho 2.27-Win32
    * Origin: The Lions Den BBS, Trenton, On, CDN (1:249/303)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Joe Delahaye on Sat Jan 3 17:48:37 2015
    * If something is being done all over zone-2 then it is relevant

    It is still ONLY Z2 and not the other 3 zones.

    Irrelevant. What's relevant is that it's actually something that can be put into a technical definition file.

    As I said before, if Ward had put it into writing and submitted it to the FTSC, it would have been judged by it's merits. Not that I think it would have any real value to add to our FTN -- but at least he could have given it a try. We've seen far more queer proposals during the decades... 8-)

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://felten.yi.org (2:203/2)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Joe Delahaye on Sat Jan 3 18:24:08 2015
    I have no doubt about that. That however is political, and not
    technical.

    Yet at that moment in time, the members went for it.

    It is still ONLY Z2 and not the other 3 zones.

    Just so you are aware, there is a file-distribution for ERRFLAGS.ZC2 which is the parameter file in use here. Whenever there's a change, several *Cs update their systems, so it's not just a ZC2-thingie.

    (yeah I know what you think of Z4)

    Z4 is a joke ... 1 active node. Basically that one node operates as a point of Janis' system or mine, depending how you look at it.

    Everyone knows its presence is a political thing too ... even the deniers know it, but will deny that too...

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99
    * Origin: Many Glacier / Protect - Preserve - Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Joe Delahaye@1:249/303 to Ward Dossche on Sat Jan 3 16:56:44 2015
    Re: Re: Makenl and bad segments...
    By: Ward Dossche to Joe Delahaye on Sat Jan 03 2015 18:24:08

    It is still ONLY Z2 and not the other 3 zones.

    Just so you are aware, there is a file-distribution for ERRFLAGS.ZC2 which is the parameter file in use here. Whenever there's a change, several *Cs update their systems, so it's not just a ZC2-thingie.

    Still, as far as I know, it is pretty much a Z2 thing. Not saying there are not others in other zones using it, but it is not in general use there.


    Z4 is a joke ... 1 active node. Basically that one node operates as a point of Janis' system or mine, depending how you look at it.

    See :)


    Everyone knows its presence is a political thing too ... even the deniers know it, but will deny that too...

    I deny that I denied anything ...... :)
    --- SBBSecho 2.27-Win32
    * Origin: The Lions Den BBS, Trenton, On, CDN (1:249/303)
  • From Joe Delahaye@1:249/303 to Björn Felten on Sun Jan 4 12:39:09 2015
    Re: Makenl and bad segments...
    By: Björn Felten to Joe Delahaye on Sat Jan 03 2015 17:48:37

    * If something is being done all over zone-2 then it is relevant

    It is still ONLY Z2 and not the other 3 zones.

    Irrelevant. What's relevant is that it's actually something that can be put into a technical definition file.

    Why. The FTSC documents general practice. If it is only done in one zone, it is not general practice.


    As I said before, if Ward had put it into writing and submitted it to
    the FTSC, it would have been judged by it's merits. Not that I think it would have any real value to add to our FTN -- but at least he could have given it a try. We've seen far more queer proposals during the decades... 8-)

    Perhaps, but again, General practice, is what is supposed to be looked at. The fact that several stupid things were done previously does not mean that something that might make a little more sense, should be accepted, just because.
    --- SBBSecho 2.27-Win32
    * Origin: The Lions Den BBS, Trenton, On, CDN (1:249/303)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Joe Delahaye on Sun Jan 4 20:12:43 2015
    Why. The FTSC documents general practice. If it is only done in one
    zone, it is not general practice.

    Not even if that zone covers 80% of the membership?

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99
    * Origin: Many Glacier / Protect - Preserve - Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Joe Delahaye@1:249/303 to Ward Dossche on Sun Jan 4 16:19:06 2015
    Re: Re: Makenl and bad segments...
    By: Ward Dossche to Joe Delahaye on Sun Jan 04 2015 20:12:43


    Not even if that zone covers 80% of the membership?

    Does it really though? How much is actually dead wood? Both our zones have a lot of dead wood. The Russian part of Z2 could care less about the Eurpean part I have noticed. They do things their way. I think (so far at least) they still outnumber all of us, so I suppose if it is used by a majority there, then it probably would be in general usage.

    The question remains, how can you tell how and where it is used?
    --- SBBSecho 2.27-Win32
    * Origin: The Lions Den BBS, Trenton, On, CDN (1:249/303)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Joe Delahaye on Sun Jan 4 22:42:15 2015
    Joe,

    Not even if that zone covers 80% of the membership?

    Does it really though?

    Actually, it's irrelevant.

    I'm pretty certain the real size of the overal nodelist is less than 50% active
    people than those listed in it. What the distribution would be, I don't know.

    \%/@rd

    --- D'Bridge 3.99
    * Origin: Many Glacier / Protect - Preserve - Conserve (2:292/854)
  • From Joe Delahaye@1:249/303 to Ward Dossche on Sun Jan 4 19:15:44 2015
    Re: Re: Makenl and bad segments...
    By: Ward Dossche to Joe Delahaye on Sun Jan 04 2015 22:42:15

    Does it really though?

    Actually, it's irrelevant.

    I'm pretty certain the real size of the overal nodelist is less than 50% active people than those listed in it. What the distribution would be, I don't know.

    I'll agree with you there.
    --- SBBSecho 2.27-Win32
    * Origin: The Lions Den BBS, Trenton, On, CDN (1:249/303)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12 to Joe Delahaye on Tue Jan 6 13:12:46 2015

    On Sun, 04 Jan 2015, Joe Delahaye wrote to Ward Dossche:

    Does it really though?

    Actually, it's irrelevant.

    I'm pretty certain the real size of the overal nodelist is less
    than 50% active people than those listed in it. What the
    distribution would be, I don't know.

    I'll agree with you there.

    as far as "active" goes in areas that can be found in the public eye, that's probably pretty true... we can't count private areas and no one has to actually
    post anything anywhere to be a member of the network...

    that said, eliminating duplicates, there's 1948 operator names listed in nodelist.006... that's with eliminating obvious non-names... there's only one or two that may be the same person listed with two variations of their name...

    eg: FA_Stare Fred_A_Stare Fred_Stare (ficticious example)

    )\/(ark


    * Origin: (1:3634/12)
  • From Joe Delahaye@1:249/303 to mark lewis on Tue Jan 6 15:54:41 2015
    Re: Makenl and bad segments...
    By: mark lewis to Joe Delahaye on Tue Jan 06 2015 13:12:46

    as far as "active" goes in areas that can be found in the public eye, that's probably pretty true... we can't count private areas and no one has to actually post anything anywhere to be a member of the network...

    that said, eliminating duplicates, there's 1948 operator names listed in nodelist.006... that's with eliminating obvious non-names... there's only one or two that may be the same person listed with two variations of their name...

    eg: FA_Stare Fred_A_Stare Fred_Stare (ficticious example)


    Still, I think there is a lot of dead wood in the nodelist, at least in Z1 and 2. I have no idea about Z3
    --- SBBSecho 2.27-Win32
    * Origin: The Lions Den BBS, Trenton, On, CDN (1:249/303)
  • From Kees van Eeten@2:280/5003.4 to Joe Delahaye on Tue Jan 6 22:14:50 2015
    Hello Joe!

    06 Jan 15 15:54, you wrote to mark lewis:

    Still, I think there is a lot of dead wood in the nodelist, at least in Z1 and 2. I have no idea about Z3

    There is none in Z3, % wise Z4 tops all.
    There was a node from Argentine, testing Binkd, yesterday.

    Kees

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5
    * Origin: As for me, all I know is that, I know nothing. (2:280/5003.4)
  • From Joe Delahaye@1:249/303 to Kees van Eeten on Wed Jan 7 12:12:18 2015
    Re: Makenl and bad segments...
    By: Kees van Eeten to Joe Delahaye on Tue Jan 06 2015 22:14:50

    There is none in Z3, % wise Z4 tops all.
    There was a node from Argentine, testing Binkd, yesterday.


    Yes, I saw that.
    --- SBBSecho 2.27-Win32
    * Origin: The Lions Den BBS, Trenton, On, CDN (1:249/303)
  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to Ward Dossche on Wed Jan 7 14:36:00 2015
    Ward Dossche wrote to Joe Delahaye <=-

    I'm pretty certain the real size of the overal nodelist is less than
    50% active people than those listed in it. What the distribution would
    be, I don't know.

    I've got 5 MIA nodes out of 26 distinct nodes in my region. Roughly 20%?



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  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12 to Joe Delahaye on Wed Jan 7 19:30:11 2015

    On Tue, 06 Jan 2015, Joe Delahaye wrote to mark lewis:

    that said, eliminating duplicates, there's 1948 operator names
    listed in nodelist.006... that's with eliminating obvious
    non-names... there's only one or two that may be the same person
    listed with two variations of their name...

    eg: FA_Stare Fred_A_Stare Fred_Stare (ficticious example)

    Still, I think there is a lot of dead wood in the nodelist, at
    least in Z1 and 2. I have no idea about Z3

    there might be but how is "dead wood" being determined? counting posts from a system can't be used because that's never been a requirement for membership... in fact, the only requirement was the ability to send and receive netmail... right?

    )\/(ark


    * Origin: (1:3634/12)
  • From Joe Delahaye@1:249/303 to mark lewis on Wed Jan 7 20:45:38 2015
    Re: Makenl and bad segments...
    By: mark lewis to Joe Delahaye on Wed Jan 07 2015 19:30:11

    there might be but how is "dead wood" being determined? counting posts from a system can't be used because that's never been a requirement for membership... in fact, the only requirement was the ability to send and receive netmail... right?


    If a system cannot be contacted, or does not contact his NC etc, I would consider that pretty dead in most cases. I have one or two nodes, but I occassionally see posts by them, so I know they are still alive.
    --- SBBSecho 2.27-Win32
    * Origin: The Lions Den BBS, Trenton, On, CDN (1:249/303)
  • From Paul Hayton@3:770/100 to Kees van Eeten on Thu Jan 8 20:00:54 2015
    On 01/06/15, Kees van Eeten pondered and said...

    There is none in Z3, % wise Z4 tops all.

    Z3 is nice and tidy :-)

    --
    `I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid, and I'm not going' - Kerr Avon, Blake's 7

    Agency BBS, New Zealand | bbs.geek.nz | telnet: agency.bbs.geek.nz:23

    --- Mystic BBS v1.10 A59 (Windows)
    * Origin: Agency BBS | telnet://agency.bbs.geek.nz (3:770/100)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12 to Joe Delahaye on Thu Jan 8 05:51:52 2015

    On Wed, 07 Jan 2015, Joe Delahaye wrote to mark lewis:

    there might be but how is "dead wood" being determined? counting
    posts from a system can't be used because that's never been a
    requirement for membership... in fact, the only requirement was
    the ability to send and receive netmail... right?

    If a system cannot be contacted, or does not contact his NC etc, I
    would consider that pretty dead in most cases. I have one or two
    nodes, but I occassionally see posts by them, so I know they are
    still alive.

    how would you have viewed my system when it ran on auto-pilot for a year or two
    while i was burnt out and staying away from it and most other electronics?? i /might/ have posted 5-10 messages in that period... i think i peeked in on the system once every 3 or 4 months... it certainly wasn't dead or deadwood... it was very active processing and distributing mail and files...

    )\/(ark


    * Origin: (1:3634/12)
  • From Joe Delahaye@1:249/303 to mark lewis on Thu Jan 8 10:26:47 2015
    Re: Makenl and bad segments...
    By: mark lewis to Joe Delahaye on Thu Jan 08 2015 05:51:52

    how would you have viewed my system when it ran on auto-pilot for a year or two while i was burnt out and staying away from it and most other electronics?? i /might/ have posted 5-10 messages in that period... i think i peeked in on the system once every 3 or 4 months... it certainly wasn't dead or deadwood... it was very active processing and distributing mail and files...


    In that case it would have shown up in the seen-by, and thus be considered live

    --- SBBSecho 2.27-Win32
    * Origin: The Lions Den BBS, Trenton, On, CDN (1:249/303)
  • From Nicholas Boel@1:154/701 to mark lewis on Thu Jan 8 15:12:54 2015
    Hello mark,

    On 08 Jan 15 05:51, mark lewis wrote to Joe Delahaye:

    there might be but how is "dead wood" being determined? counting
    posts from a system can't be used because that's never been a
    requirement for membership... in fact, the only requirement was
    the ability to send and receive netmail... right?

    If a system cannot be contacted, or does not contact his NC etc,
    I would consider that pretty dead in most cases. I have one or
    two nodes, but I occassionally see posts by them, so I know they
    are still alive.

    how would you have viewed my system when it ran on auto-pilot for a
    year or two while i was burnt out and staying away from it and most
    other electronics?? i /might/ have posted 5-10 messages in that
    period... i think i peeked in on the system once every 3 or 4
    months... it certainly wasn't dead or deadwood... it was very active processing and distributing mail and files...

    I think Joe's referring to the system in general, not the operator. If your mailer was answering as well as sending.. then it's not "dead wood". It's when you try to connect to a mailer for months and nothing responds, and doesn't poll you either.

    Regards,
    Nick

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20130910
    * Origin: thePharcyde_ telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin) (1:154/701)
  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to mark lewis on Thu Jan 8 11:20:00 2015
    mark lewis wrote to Joe Delahaye <=-

    how would you have viewed my system when it ran on auto-pilot for a
    year or two while i was burnt out and staying away from it and most
    other electronics??

    Did it have a functioning mailer and a non-PVT nodelist entry? I don't
    think a minimum posting criteria is relevant, but knowing which mailers are
    up is...




    ... Once the search has begun, something will be found
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    * Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12 to Kurt Weiske on Wed Jan 14 19:43:45 2015

    On Thu, 08 Jan 2015, Kurt Weiske wrote to mark lewis:

    mark lewis wrote to Joe Delahaye <=-

    how would you have viewed my system when it ran on auto-pilot for
    a year or two while i was burnt out and staying away from it and
    most other electronics??

    Did it have a functioning mailer and a non-PVT nodelist entry?

    yes... it also followed its limited online times indicators in the nodelist for
    its POTS line... the internet lines did not... they stayed up and running accepting callers and mailers...

    I don't think a minimum posting criteria is relevant, but knowing
    which mailers are up is...

    to a point yes, i think i see what you are saying...

    )\/(ark


    * Origin: (1:3634/12)