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You aren't `discussing' religion......you are slamming `religionists'.
Who deserve slamming.
Again....you are focusing on a `person' who wasn't exactly the ideal
of a `man of God'.
You kidding?
Even Hollywood could never come up with a character like Falwell.
Self-righteous, hypocritical, theocratic, serial liar, greedy, and those RS>are his good points.
You focus far too often on the bad *you* see in others......you should focus a little closer to home....and deal with yourself, first, before trying to spread your sense of moral outrage at others.
I'm not a national figure, begging for money on TV, encouraging Ugandan RS>politicians to pass a "death penalty for gays" law, trying to get RS>"Christian nation" laws passed in this country, using religion to justify RS>unreasoning hatred.
And did he advocate preachers getting rich?
Bit of a thorny issue here!
I think any preacher who uses the Gospels to justify getting richA lot worse than that. :-)
deserves to have to pay TAXES!
Preacher: Donkey, wise men's gifts, expensive undergarments prove Jesus
was wealthy
Professor: "torturous interpretations" and historical naivete make Jesus rich
Televangelists have built megachurches by equating piety and prosperity
his expensive undergarments. Even Jesus' parents, Mary and Joseph, lived
and traveled in style, he says.
A clash of gospels?
piety with prosperity.
example: The 12th chapter of the Gospel of John says that Jesus had a treasurer, or a "keeper of the money bag."
"The last time I checked, poor people don't have treasurers to take care their money," says Brown, author of "Devil, Demons and SpiritualHe should check again. You do your own taxes? Those who don't are rich?
Warfare."
A debate over the economic status of Jesus may seem nonsensical to some. Does it really matter whether Jesus was rich or poor?
It matters to people like Luke Timothy Johnson, a prominent NewRecognition of and compassion for is NOT identification with...
Testament scholar and author. He says that a rich Jesus is a distortion
of history and a threat to one of Christianity's core teachings: God's identification with the poor.
"If Jesus reveals God...Wow! Jesus reveals man as he should be, in tune with, but revealed?
and working among the poor,"
"Jesus' lifestyle is not of one in a gated community or a corporate
office," says Johnson, a former Benedictine monk.
through a security gate to get to Jesus. People touch him. He reached
out and touched children...
messages of Christianity.
us are poor."
Some prosperity preachers extract a different message from the same
biblical texts.
"Jesus said you will always have the poor, but you will not always have
me," Brown says. "Jesus did not affirm himself as being part of the poor class...
"I believe he was the richest man on the face of the earth because he
had God as his source," Brown says.
The New Testament reports that Roman soldiers gambled for Jesus'
clothing while he hung on the cross. They wouldn't gamble for Jesus' clothing unless it was expensive, Anderson says.
"I don't know anybody -- even Pamela Anderson -- that would have people gambling for his underwear," Anderson says.
wore."
Anderson says Jesus never would have had disciples or a large following
if he was poor. He would not have been able to command their respect.
"The poor will follow the rich, the rich will follow the rich, but the
rich will never follow the poor," Anderson says.
Twisting scripture for personal gain?
Johnson, the Emory University New Testament professor, calls Anderson's argument "completely illogical."
And did he advocate preachers getting rich?
Bit of a thorny issue here!
I think any preacher who uses the Gospels to justify getting rich RS>deserves to have to pay TAXES!
Passions over 'prosperity gospel': Was Jesus wealthy?
By John Blake, CNN
Jesus wasn't poor, Rev. C. Thomas Anderson claims
Preacher: Donkey, wise men's gifts, expensive undergarments prove Jesus RS>was wealthy
And did he advocate preachers getting rich?
Bit of a thorny issue here!
I think any preacher who uses the Gospels to justify getting rich
deserves to have to pay TAXES!
Passions over 'prosperity gospel': Was Jesus wealthy?
By John Blake, CNN
Jesus wasn't poor, Rev. C. Thomas Anderson claimsJesus RS>was wealthy
Preacher: Donkey, wise men's gifts, expensive undergarments prove
Jesus `wasn't' poor. His step-father, Joseph, was a carpenter. Jesus followed into Joseph's trade.
In the day of Jesus, pretty much as now, a skilled tradesman always
has work, and makes a good living. Where the idea that Jesus was
`poor' came from is probably buried in antiquity. But skilled
carpenters are rarely, if ever, `poor'.
"TIM RICHARDSON -> ROSS SAUER" <1:123/140> wrote in news:10657$HOLYSMOKE@JamNNTPd:
And did he advocate preachers getting rich?
Bit of a thorny issue here!
I think any preacher who uses the Gospels to justify getting rich
deserves to have to pay TAXES!
Passions over 'prosperity gospel': Was Jesus wealthy?
By John Blake, CNN
Jesus wasn't poor, Rev. C. Thomas Anderson claims
Preacher: Donkey, wise men's gifts, expensive undergarments prove
Jesus RS>was wealthy
Jesus `wasn't' poor. His step-father, Joseph, was a carpenter. Jesus
followed into Joseph's trade.
I know that.
But we have no idea if Joseph was a good carpenter, mediocre or bad. Likewise Jesus.
In the day of Jesus, pretty much as now, a skilled tradesman always
has work, and makes a good living. Where the idea that Jesus was
`poor' came from is probably buried in antiquity. But skilled
carpenters are rarely, if ever, `poor'.
Thing is Jesus gave up the trade to go "on the road."
So how much ready cash did he have at hand?
Some of these "Prosperity Preachers" say he had a lot.
Jesus TR>> followed into Joseph's trade.Jesus `wasn't' poor. His step-father, Joseph, was a carpenter.
I know that.bad. RS> Likewise Jesus.
But we have no idea if Joseph was a good carpenter, mediocre or
Good grief. Read the book, it tells you how good Joseph and Jesus were
as wood workers. "Carpenter" is a misnomer, they were more carver and carpenter.
always TR>> has work, and makes a good living. Where the idea thatIn the day of Jesus, pretty much as now, a skilled tradesman
Jesus was TR>> `poor' came from is probably buried in antiquity. But
skilled TR>> carpenters are rarely, if ever, `poor'.
Thing is Jesus gave up the trade to go "on the road."
He was on the road for 3 years.
So how much ready cash did he have at hand?
He didn't take much cash at all. Read the story of the young rich man
to understand it. Jesus told the young man to sell all his property
and give the money to the poor not because Jesus was teaching him that
he must be poor to follow Him, but that he could not have two masters.
The lesson is that one cannot love wealth and God at the same time.
I know several people who are devout Christians and are wealthy. The consecrated all their possessions to the service of the Lord, helping those less fortunate when the need arises. God does not want you to be poor, but He also does not want you to be so caught up in gaining
material wealth that you forget where it all comes from.
Some of these "Prosperity Preachers" say he had a lot.
He was comfortable, but not wealthy like those preachers claim. Again,
the story of the young rich man is an example.
It's a case of priorities.
"Ed Hulett -> Ross Sauer" <1:123/789.0> wrote in news:10659$HOLYSMOKE@JamNNTPd:
Jesus `wasn't' poor. His step-father, Joseph, was a carpenter.
Jesus TR>> followed into Joseph's trade.
I know that.
But we have no idea if Joseph was a good carpenter, mediocre or
bad. RS> Likewise Jesus.
Good grief. Read the book, it tells you how good Joseph and Jesus were
as wood workers. "Carpenter" is a misnomer, they were more carver and
carpenter.
The Bible does say how good they were?
Show me.
In the day of Jesus, pretty much as now, a skilled tradesman
always TR>> has work, and makes a good living. Where the idea that
Jesus was TR>> `poor' came from is probably buried in antiquity. But
skilled TR>> carpenters are rarely, if ever, `poor'.
Thing is Jesus gave up the trade to go "on the road."
He was on the road for 3 years.
I know. 3 years, POSSIBLY.
He may have gone on the road before that and it was never written about.
So how much ready cash did he have at hand?
He didn't take much cash at all. Read the story of the young rich man
to understand it. Jesus told the young man to sell all his property
and give the money to the poor not because Jesus was teaching him that
he must be poor to follow Him, but that he could not have two masters.
I remember that story.
Too bad Pat Robertson forgot it.
The lesson is that one cannot love wealth and God at the same time.
Tell that to the Prosperity Preachers.
I know several people who are devout Christians and are wealthy. The
consecrated all their possessions to the service of the Lord, helping
those less fortunate when the need arises. God does not want you to be
poor, but He also does not want you to be so caught up in gaining
material wealth that you forget where it all comes from.
"Consecrated all their possesions to the Lord?"
How do they do that?
Some of these "Prosperity Preachers" say he had a lot.
He was comfortable, but not wealthy like those preachers claim. Again,
the story of the young rich man is an example.
It's a case of priorities.
And the priorities of far too many national and/or TV preachers is
gaining wealth for themselves.
Jerry Falwell even kissed up to Moon, who he had previously condemned, when he wanted to keep his TV ministry going but not cut his own and his cronies' salaries.
Jesus were EH>> as wood workers. "Carpenter" is a misnomer, theyGood grief. Read the book, it tells you how good Joseph and
were more carver and EH>> carpenter.
The Bible does say how good they were?
Show me.
Back then a tradesman was well respected and a woodworker was
considered among the best. One did not become a woodworker right off
the street, but had to go through years of apprenticeship.
In the day of Jesus, pretty much as now, a skilled tradesman
that EH>> Jesus was TR>> `poor' came from is probably buried inalways TR>> has work, and makes a good living. Where the idea
antiquity. But EH>> skilled TR>> carpenters are rarely, if ever,
`poor'.
Thing is Jesus gave up the trade to go "on the road."
He was on the road for 3 years.
I know. 3 years, POSSIBLY.written about.
He may have gone on the road before that and it was never
His ministry spanned 3 years.
So how much ready cash did he have at hand?
rich man EH>> to understand it. Jesus told the young man to sell allHe didn't take much cash at all. Read the story of the young
his property EH>> and give the money to the poor not because Jesus
was teaching him that EH>> he must be poor to follow Him, but that
he could not have two masters.
I remember that story.
Too bad Pat Robertson forgot it.
Your knickers knot up whenever you think of Pat Robertson.
time.The lesson is that one cannot love wealth and God at the same
Tell that to the Prosperity Preachers.
Why should I? I have no need to.
wealthy. The EH>> consecrated all their possessions to the serviceI know several people who are devout Christians and are
of the Lord, helping EH>> those less fortunate when the need arises.
God does not want you to be EH>> poor, but He also does not want you
to be so caught up in gaining EH>> material wealth that you forget
where it all comes from.
"Consecrated all their possesions to the Lord?"
How do they do that?
They admit that all they have is God's and that they use it in His service. IOW, they willingly share it with those in need when the need arises. I explained it quite well already. Your inability to
understand what I said isn't my problem.
Some of these "Prosperity Preachers" say he had a lot.
Again, EH>> the story of the young rich man is an example.He was comfortable, but not wealthy like those preachers claim.
It's a case of priorities.
And the priorities of far too many national and/or TV preachersis RS> gaining wealth for themselves.
You know this... how?
Jim and Tammy Fay Bakker were an example of what you claim with gold plated bathroom fixtures and such.
Jerry Falwell even kissed up to Moon, who he had previouslycondemned, RS> when he wanted to keep his TV ministry going but not
cut his own and his RS> cronies' salaries.
Falwell is dead.
"Ed Hulett -> Ross Sauer" <1:123/789.0> wrote in news:10661$HOLYSMOKE@JamNNTPd:
Jesus were EH>> as wood workers. "Carpenter" is a misnomer, theyGood grief. Read the book, it tells you how good Joseph and
were more carver and EH>> carpenter.
The Bible does say how good they were?
Show me.
Back then a tradesman was well respected and a woodworker was
considered among the best. One did not become a woodworker right off
the street, but had to go through years of apprenticeship.
Again, the Bible says how good they were?
Your exact quote: "Read the book, it tells you how good Joseph and
Jesus were as wood workers. "Carpenter" is a misnomer, they
were more carver and carpenter."
Where in the Bible does it say?
In the day of Jesus, pretty much as now, a skilled tradesman
that EH>> Jesus was TR>> `poor' came from is probably buried inalways TR>> has work, and makes a good living. Where the idea
antiquity. But EH>> skilled TR>> carpenters are rarely, if ever,
`poor'.
Thing is Jesus gave up the trade to go "on the road."
He was on the road for 3 years.
I know. 3 years, POSSIBLY.
He may have gone on the road before that and it was never
written about.
His ministry spanned 3 years.
That you know of.
So how much ready cash did he have at hand?
rich man EH>> to understand it. Jesus told the young man to sell allHe didn't take much cash at all. Read the story of the young
his property EH>> and give the money to the poor not because Jesus
was teaching him that EH>> he must be poor to follow Him, but that
he could not have two masters.
I remember that story.
Too bad Pat Robertson forgot it.
Your knickers knot up whenever you think of Pat Robertson.
Robertson is a corrupt fake Christian.
And even after he's dead, his family will continue spreading his gospel
of hatred and lies.
(Not to mention Robertson using his TV pulpit to sell just about anything...)
time.The lesson is that one cannot love wealth and God at the same
Tell that to the Prosperity Preachers.
Why should I? I have no need to.
wealthy. The EH>> consecrated all their possessions to the serviceI know several people who are devout Christians and are
of the Lord, helping EH>> those less fortunate when the need arises.
God does not want you to be EH>> poor, but He also does not want you
to be so caught up in gaining EH>> material wealth that you forget
where it all comes from.
"Consecrated all their possesions to the Lord?"
How do they do that?
They admit that all they have is God's and that they use it in His
service. IOW, they willingly share it with those in need when the need
arises. I explained it quite well already. Your inability to
understand what I said isn't my problem.
They may have "consecrated their stuff to the Lord," but in reality it goes to the church.
Some of these "Prosperity Preachers" say he had a lot.
Again, EH>> the story of the young rich man is an example.He was comfortable, but not wealthy like those preachers claim.
It's a case of priorities.
And the priorities of far too many national and/or TV preachers
is RS> gaining wealth for themselves.
You know this... how?
Ever see a poor TV preacher?
Just go to Trinity Broadcast Network, with their fancy clothes, big hair and sitting on golden thrones.
I'm serious. GOLDEN thrones.
Jim and Tammy Fay Bakker were an example of what you claim with gold
plated bathroom fixtures and such.
At least Tammy dumped her corrupt husband, and did some good before she died of cancer.
Jerry Falwell even kissed up to Moon, who he had previously
condemned, RS> when he wanted to keep his TV ministry going but not
cut his own and his RS> cronies' salaries.
Falwell is dead.
His brat...I mean son is carrying on in Jerry's footsteps, complete with hatred, lies, and constantly begging for money.
Falwell is dead.
His brat...I mean son is carrying on in Jerry's footsteps, complete with RS>hatred, lies, and constantly begging for money.
Falwell is dead.
His brat...I mean son is carrying on in Jerry's footsteps, completewith RS>hatred, lies, and constantly begging for money.
Obviously, the absolute irony of someone like *you* typing your
sentence above completely escapes you.
You go after Jesus as though you must drag him, also, down to *your*
level in order to feel good about yourself, in much the same way you
do others.
His brat...I mean son is carrying on in Jerry's footsteps, completewith RS>hatred, lies, and constantly begging for money.
Obviously, the absolute irony of someone like *you* typing your
sentence above completely escapes you.
You go after Jesus as though you must drag him, also, down to *your*
level in order to feel good about yourself, in much the same way you
do others.
How do you go from my complaints about "God told me it's ok to get rich RS>from my pulpit" preachers to Jesus?
I simply posted an article about a controversy, where two sets of RS>preachers say two different things, one groups saying Jesus was poor,
the other saying Jesus was rich.
Jerry Falwell himself began his career using his electronic pulpit to RS>defend racism and segregation.
When it came to a choice between lowering the big fat salary he had his RS>church give him, and taking money from a cult leader, (Moon,) who
Falwell had condemned, Falwell took the Moon money.
Now that he's died, Falwell's son has taken over the Falwell franchise, RS>and is running it just like Daddy did.
By preaching hatred, lies and begging for money.
You go after Jesus as though you must drag him, also, down to*your* TR> level in order to feel good about yourself, in much the
same way you TR> do others.
How do you go from my complaints about "God told me it's ok to getrich RS>from my pulpit" preachers to Jesus?
You aren't `discussing' religion......you are slamming `religionists'.
There is nothing wrong with being `rich'. Nowhere in the bible can you point to a single admonishment by `God'....or `Jesus' against being
rich, or even well-to-do.
I simply posted an article about a controversy, where two sets ofpoor, RS>the other saying Jesus was rich.
preachers say two different things, one groups saying Jesus was
Jesus was neither one. Jesus had a good trade, and up till he began
his ministry he made a decent living at it.
Jerry Falwell himself began his career using his electronic pulpitto RS>defend racism and segregation.
Again....you are focusing on a `person' who wasn't exactly the ideal
of a `man of God'.
When it came to a choice between lowering the big fat salary he hadhis RS>church give him, and taking money from a cult leader, (Moon,)
who RS>Falwell had condemned, Falwell took the Moon money.
You are tossing out firebrands against someone you intensely disliked,
disparaging his offspring as well, and (more likely than not) probably don't know what you are talking about (not a new situation for you).
Now that he's died, Falwell's son has taken over the Falwellfranchise, RS>and is running it just like Daddy did.
By preaching hatred, lies and begging for money.
You focus far too often on the bad *you* see in others......you should focus a little closer to home....and deal with yourself, first, before trying to spread your sense of moral outrage at others.
complete TR> with RS>hatred, lies, and constantly begging for money.His brat...I mean son is carrying on in Jerry's footsteps,
Obviously, the absolute irony of someone like *you* typing your
sentence above completely escapes you.
You go after Jesus as though you must drag him, also, down to
*your* level in order to feel good about yourself, in much the
same way you do others.
How do you go from my complaints about "God told me it's ok to get TR>RS>rich from my pulpit" preachers to Jesus?
You aren't `discussing' religion......you are slamming
`religionists'.
There is nothing wrong with being `rich'. Nowhere in the bible can
you point to a single admonishment by `God'....or `Jesus' against
being rich, or even well-to-do.
Correct but it does talk a lot about the evils of envy. Sauer and the
left is all about envy and class warfare.
Correct but it does talk a lot about the evils of envy. Sauer and the
left is all about envy and class warfare.
Ah, so THAT is what we are all about. Thanks!
Correct but it does talk a lot about the evils of envy. Sauer
and the left is all about envy and class warfare.
Ah, so THAT is what we are all about. Thanks!
Jeff speaks of "class" warfare, especially since he gleefuly wrote
about how he would bring marshmallows to roast over us heathens
roasting in hell.
Correct but it does talk a lot about the evils of envy. Sauer
and the left is all about envy and class warfare.
Ah, so THAT is what we are all about. Thanks!
Jeff speaks of "class" warfare, especially since he gleefuly wrote
about how he would bring marshmallows to roast over us heathens
roasting in hell.
Just one heathen, you.