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Subject: Dell 780 Problem:
From: Mark Twain <magineer02@yahoo.com>
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I have a Dell XPS 8500, with Windows 7 Professional, SP1,
with Spywareblaster, Malwarebytes, Avast , Windows Defender
and Windows firewall.

(1) TB HD
Intel (R) Core (TM) i7-33-3770 CPU @ 3.40 GHz
Ram 12.0 GB
System type : 64-bit operating system

I also have

I have a Dell Optiplex 780 Tower, with Windows 7 Professional,
SP1, with Spywareblaster, Malwarebytes, Avast , Windows Defender
and Windows firewall.

Intel (R) Core 2 Duo 2.93 GHz
4GB RAM, 750 GB HD
System type : 64-bit operating system

and (external hard drives)

Seagate Backup Plus 1(TB) 2.5 USB Portable HD

WD BLACK SERIES WD2003FZEX 2TB 7200
RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal
Hard Drive

The issue involves the Dell 780. I smacked my knee against it
and when I went to power it up it beeped like(5)times and out of
1,2,3,4 lights only 3,4 appear.

So is my HD gone? or how do I resolve the problem?

Thoughts, suggestions?
Robert
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From: "R.Wieser" <address@not.available>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 19:51:18 +0100
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Mark,

Thoughts, suggestions?

A quick search (DELL 780 beeps) turns up this:

http://ebay.redplanettrading.com/desktops/case/optiplex780/Optiplex780_SM_DT/di ags.htm

Look under "beep codes" and see if you recognise the pattern.

.... It could well be that your 'puters memory has become unseated (hopefully just that).

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

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Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
From: Mark Twain <magineer02@yahoo.com>
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Xref: feeder.eternal-september.org microsoft.public.windowsxp.general:134557

Thanks for the link,.

from the diagnostic lights it looks like it's
a memory module problem. I may have unseated
one when I bashed into it or something. What
do you think? I don't have any spares.

Thanks,
Robert
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From: "R.Wieser" <address@not.available>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 21:32:56 +0100
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Mark,

from the diagnostic lights it looks like it's
a memory module problem.

The beep code will give you a bit more certainty to that.

I may have unseated one when I bashed into it

Quite possible. If thats indeed the case than re-seating it (removing and placing it back) could solve the problem.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

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Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
From: Mark Twain <magineer02@yahoo.com>
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I just re-seated both RAM modules
and now it came back with more beeps
(hard to tell a sequence) and the
number 1 light is lit which indicates
no memory modules detected.

I made sure I push the clamps down on
each end when re-seating the modules.

Thoughts/suggestions?
Robert
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Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
From: Mark Twain <magineer02@yahoo.com>
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As I said, the beeps are hard to
follow but If I read the beeps
correctly I have a master DMA
register failure.

That along with the 1 diagnostic
light lit indicating no memory
modules detected.

Robert

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From: Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
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Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
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Mark Twain wrote:

As I said, the beeps are hard to
follow but If I read the beeps
correctly I have a master DMA
register failure.

That along with the 1 diagnostic
light lit indicating no memory
modules detected.

Robert

Careful.

You should not remove a DIMM with the power on.
Even if the fans aren't running, the power supply
+5VSB is still delivered by the supply.

You should unplug the computer before working
on DIMMs. That's the only way to be absolutely sure
power is removed. On Asus motherboards, a green LED
stops glowing, indicating it's safe to work. On motherboards
without the green LED, wait at least 30 seconds from
unplugging the power supply, until you work on the DIMM.

To remove a DIMM, you rotate out the latches
to 45 degrees, and that helps ease the DIMM up out
of the socket a bit. Once the contacts aren't gripping
the DIMM, it should then be able to be pulled straight out.

When inserting the DIMM, the center notch has to
align with the "key" in the slot. This prevents
180 degree reversal of DIMMs by accident. Visually verify
when re-inserting, you're putting it in the right way.
(I have to include these instructions, for the sake of
completeness.)

When inserting the DIMM, the latches go to the
45 degree position. The DIMM is then aligned with
the "square" opening in the DIMM slot. The end-guides
guide the ends of the DIMM for its downward trip.

When you push down on the DIMM (to force the fingers
between the contacts), it will cause the
latches to rotate into the upright position again.
You should hear a "click" when the DIMM is in
place, from each end. The latch should be
in the upright position, the protrusion on
the latch should insert into the area reserved for
it on the side of the DIMM.

On DIMM slots which use one latch, and the latch
nearest the video card is a dud, only one end will
be heard to "click". I have a mixture of motherboards
here - most have two latches, but at least one I own,
has a single latch on each DIMM slot.

With a flashlight, look at the fingers on the DIMM.
The "gold" should mostly be hidden below the socket
body, so you can't really see any gold. If you see
a lot of gold glinting back at you, it isn't seated.

DIMMs which are finished "flat" on the end, have
high insertion force. It hurts your fingers to
drive those into the socket. Some of the older memory
standards, the insertion force wasn't nearly as high.
I have some Kingston DDR2 here, it just about
kills me inserting those.

You can blow a DIMM or processor interface, if
the DIMM falls out with the power on, and something
gets shorted together. The most likely way this would
happen, is if one end of the DIMM comes loose, while
the other end stays in the socket. That should
only happen, if the PC is dropped out of a second
story window :-) Kneeing the PC should not do that.

I wouldn't panic just yet, until thoroughly verifying
the DIMM(s) are seated. Remember to unplug the computer.
If there was micro-latchup, removal of power gives
CMOS circuits a chance to recover. Verify with your
flashlight, that each DIMM is fully homed into the socket,
and no gold is showing.

Paul
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Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
From: Mark Twain <magineer02@yahoo.com>
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Hello Paul,

I was hoping you'd see the post,..

I turned all the power off before disconnecting
the 780 and re-seating the DIMMS. However when
re-seating it didn't click with the tabs going
upwards. I had to do it manually. I'll try again.

Thanks,
Robert
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Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
From: Mark Twain <magineer02@yahoo.com>
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I disconnected the computer and then reset
the DIMMS again and this time they both
clicked in. However on restarted I thought
it sounded like 4 beeps hen 2 beeps and 3,4
diagnostic lights are on. Also the monitor
shows no activity.

Thoughts/suggestions?
Robert
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Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
From: Mark Twain <magineer02@yahoo.com>
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Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm the DIMM was loose because
it wasn't even in it's slot on one end,. which
I must have done. so did that short it out? Yet,
I had the problem before I even opened it.

I honestly didn't think slamming my knee would cause
it to not function. Not that I do that allot *L*

However I now properly seated both DIMMS and still
nothing. Hmmmmmmmmm

Robert
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From: Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 02:57:33 -0500
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Mark Twain wrote:

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm the DIMM was loose because
it wasn't even in it's slot on one end,. which
I must have done. so did that short it out? Yet,
I had the problem before I even opened it.

I honestly didn't think slamming my knee would cause
it to not function. Not that I do that allot *L*

However I now properly seated both DIMMS and still
nothing. Hmmmmmmmmm

Robert

Now you must begin the grim task, of
testing one DIMM at a time. Try placing the
DIMM in an unused slot. Don't forget to power
off and wait at least 30 seconds, before moving
them around.

If one DIMM doesn't work, try the next DIMM by itself.

It helps to have an antistatic bag for storage
of any DIMMs not currently being tested.

This is why, for machines moved by couriers, you
*always* take the side off and carefully inspect
the machine for loose hardware. It was probably on
an angle like that when you got it.

If it was seated and latched, your knee couldn't do that.

Paul
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Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
From: Mark Twain <magineer02@yahoo.com>
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I took out one DIMM and re-seated the other in
a different location as you suggested. This time
it booted and gave me a screen with the following:

The amount of system storage has changed.
aLERT! Previous attempts at booting this systems
have failed at checkpoint [1thr]. For help in resolving
this problem, please note this checkpoint and contact
Dell Technical Support.

Strike the F1 key to continue, F2 to run the setup utility
Press F5 to run onboard diagnostics.

I pressed F5
It's going through Pre-boot assessment build 4521
so far everything is OK...

Should I click F1 afterwards to continue or put the other
DIMM in and see what it does?

Thought/suggestions
Robert

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Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
From: Mark Twain <magineer02@yahoo.com>
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After re-boot Assessment 34521 ran it said
it needed to re-start the system and came
back with my normal sign-on page with icons
and everything.

So how do I proceed? replace this DIMM with
the other? or put both in since it's now
working?

Thoughts/suggestions
Robert

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From: Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 07:17:33 -0500
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Mark Twain wrote:

After re-boot Assessment 34521 ran it said
it needed to re-start the system and came
back with my normal sign-on page with icons
and everything.

So how do I proceed? replace this DIMM with
the other? or put both in since it's now
working?

Thoughts/suggestions
Robert

So it's not dead then. That's good news.

I'm not familiar with the response you're getting,
but it is an Optiplex, a "business" machine, and
maybe it's designed to detect the surreptitious
removal of hardware.

You haven't indicated the count of items, but
my test sequence would be:

1) Assume two DIMMs are present, one good, one defective.
2) Assume a four DIMM slot motherboard (two DIMM slots
on each channel).

Take the "good news" DIMM, the one that worked, and test
it in each slot separately. This tells you which slots
work. That would be four test cases, with four power
removals, four boot cycles and so on. Maybe the snotty
message will appear on the screen four times too.

Now, say only one slot worked, and the other three
were dead. You could then take the (presumed-dead)
DIMM and put it in the one good slot. As a means
to test whether the bad DIMM is really bad or not.

You need to work out how many bad slots you have,
and how many bad DIMMs you have. You only need to
test enough slots, to get on with life - Paul would
test all four, but suit yourself. When I test new
computers here, it's an "epic undertaking" with
lots of test cycles.

If mixing the bad DIMM with a good slot yields
"no-workie", then you know the DIMM needs to be
replaced, or you might just run the machine with
the one DIMM. Those are your choices.

Once you know how many good slots you've got
and how many good DIMMs, you can plan accordingly.

But at least you've gotten a positive response
from your testing, and that's good news indeed.
No serious damage yet :-) A blown DIMM, you can
deal with. Replacing a motherboard wouldn't
be quite as much fun. I hate having to take
all that stuff out of the machine, to do one
of those.

Paul
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Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
From: Mark Twain <magineer02@yahoo.com>
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I checked all the slots and 1,2, are OK
but I had to click F1 for 3 and 4 to get
them to run.

I then checked the other DIMM and it works
fine.

So should I put the other DIMM back in or
would you like me to do something else?

Robert
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Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
From: Mark Twain <magineer02@yahoo.com>
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Another unrelated problem cropped up on the
8500. My flash Player no longer works although it
did this morning. The only thing I did was update
the computers.

I tried to Update the Flash Player(under Programs)
but it shows I have the current version. Nevertheless
the download failed 3 times. Could you please give me
a link that will work?

Thanks,
Robert
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Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
From: Mark Twain <magineer02@yahoo.com>
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Well this is weird,. now it's back working no sooner
than after I finished my previous message but before
it wasn't.


Robert
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Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
From: Mark Twain <magineer02@yahoo.com>
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Well now my Flash Player is messed up again, so it
looks as if I'll need a good link to flash player.
Since my efforts failed.

As far as the 780 all seems good with the exception
of having to click F1 on 3 and 4. So should I insert
both DIMMS again?

Thanks,
Robert
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
* Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)

Path: eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.o rg!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 20:42:20 -0500
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Mark Twain wrote:

Well now my Flash Player is messed up again, so it
looks as if I'll need a good link to flash player.
Since my efforts failed.

As far as the 780 all seems good with the exception
of having to click F1 on 3 and 4. So should I insert
both DIMMS again?

Thanks,
Robert

You should verify the DIMMs one at a time on the 780.

You'll also need to use your recollection of how much
RAM it was reporting before this happened. Were both
DIMMs operational at some time ? Or has that one been
sitting on an angle for a while ?

For example, say the DIMMs were 2x1GB. Were you seeing
1GB reported in Task Manager ? Or was 2GB reported from
the day you took delivery of the 780 ? If you've been
operating the machine without the benefit of that
second DIMM, maybe you don't need it. If you do need it,
and the second DIMM tests bad, then you could buy another.

You can "use the slots that don't complain" if you want,
or find the entry in the 780 manual that explains how to
reprogram that feature so the other slots are honored.

*******

Flash is currently at 27.0.0.187

http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/about/

Here is a set of links I posted a year ago.
Substitute the 27.0.0.187 number in the field
where it says 23.0.0.207.

Netscape, Seamonkey, Firefox (npapi-type browsers...)


http://fpdownload.adobe.com/get/flashplayer/pdc/23.0.0.207/install_flash_player .exe

Older versions of Internet Explorer which don't have built-in flash


http://fpdownload.adobe.com/get/flashplayer/pdc/23.0.0.207/install_flash_player _ax.exe

An uninstaller (if it was really broken or something)


http://download.macromedia.com/get/flashplayer/current/support/uninstall_flash_ player.exe

Test page, so you can check the version number on it.

http://www.adobe.com/software/flash/about/

So that means, you want this one right now for Firefox. It downloaded.

http://fpdownload.adobe.com/get/flashplayer/pdc/27.0.0.187/install_flash_player .exe

When you download one of those, if you plan to keep it,
you should modify the filename so you can remember
what it's for. "install_flash_player__27_0_0_187_npapi.exe"

For SRWare Iron (a defunct Chrome-a-like for WinXP),
you'd need PepperFlash (ppapi) plugin.


https://fpdownload.adobe.com/get/flashplayer/pdc/27.0.0.187/install_flash_playe r_ppapi.exe

In the table here, when it says "embedded", that means
the browser should download it (somehow) on its own.
So Chrome takes care of itself, while Chromium requires
the user to do the manual ppapi download. On embedded browsers,
the delivery of the plugin isn't always uniformly fast,
and sometimes an update can be a day late on those.
It all depends on which way the wind is blowing at the time.

http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/about/

HTH,
Paul
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Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
From: Mark Twain <magineer02@yahoo.com>
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I have verified both DIMMs function one at a
time and I have verified that all slots work
although I had to press F1 for number 3 and 4
slots first before the desktop screen appeared.
So that all should be functional.

The flash player is working again, and I saved the
files as you suggested.. thanks.

Here are the specs for the 780 as I bought it.

https://www.staples.com/DELL-780-Tower-Core-2-Duo-2-93GHz-4GB-Ram-750GB-DVDRW-D rive-with-Win-7-Pro-64bit-Refurbished/product_1498887

Robert
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
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Path: eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.o rg!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 04:07:52 -0500
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Xref: feeder.eternal-september.org microsoft.public.windowsxp.general:134607

Mark Twain wrote:

I have verified both DIMMs function one at a
time and I have verified that all slots work
although I had to press F1 for number 3 and 4
slots first before the desktop screen appeared.
So that all should be functional.

The flash player is working again, and I saved the
files as you suggested.. thanks.

Here are the specs for the 780 as I bought it.

https://www.staples.com/DELL-780-Tower-Core-2-Duo-2-93GHz-4GB-Ram-750GB-DVDRW-D rive-with-Win-7-Pro-64bit-Refurbished/product_1498887

Robert

It's a Q45 Northbridge. The memory type is a function
of the sockets soldered to the motherboard. The
chipset would support 4x2GB DDR2 memory or 4x4GB DDR3 memory.

Since your machine shipped with 4GB total. then the DIMMs
should have been 2x2GB in dual channel mode. They could
go in the pair of black slots, or they could go in the
pair of white slots. Those are the easiest options
to understand. The chipset is new enough, it probably
supports Flex Memory, and in fact you could have dual
channel with one white slot and one black slot. But
the reason they color the slots, is to help recognize
the "pairs" for easiest installation. Matched sticks
in pairs in same-colored slots, operate in dual channel
mode for sure.

But if some slots were damaged, it might still be possible
to get dual channel operation with "mis-colored" slots.
And that's because the Flex Memory is... flexible. There
was a time when the pairing scheme was more rigid and
unbending. Some AMD designs were like that, and the fill
order was kinda fixed on them (only one fill order of merit).
AMD has fixed that on their stuff too now, and it's practically
anything-goes like on Intel. But the older the hardware is,
the greater the chance for rigid fill rules (lazy engineers).

Paul
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Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
From: Mark Twain <magineer02@yahoo.com>
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That's correct with the black and white slots. I
was kind of wondering about the different colors
when I opened it up.

So having tested all the slots and both DIMMS do
you feel it's safe to put them both back in ?

In passing, I also did system updates during this
time.

Thanks,
Robert
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From: Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 16:08:32 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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Mark Twain wrote:

That's correct with the black and white slots. I
was kind of wondering about the different colors
when I opened it up.

So having tested all the slots and both DIMMS do
you feel it's safe to put them both back in ?

In passing, I also did system updates during this
time.

Thanks,
Robert

If both DIMMs work tested individually, then
you can try for dual channel mode and plug
both in.

*******

You can also use a memory test program, to test
that all the bits in the memory are good.

For example, half way down this page, are floppy
based and ISO (CD) based, compressed packages for
memory test. On the floppy one, you run "install.bat"
on a 32-bit machine or "install64.bat" on a 64-bit
machine, and it erases/formats/writes a floppy containing
a memory test program. (The other contents of the
floppy are removed!) Running the test program for
one pass (there's a counter) says the RAM is good.
There shouldn't be any error message printed on the screen.
Pressing <esc> exits the test program and then you
can reboot into Windows. It can take up to a couple
hours to test a machine-load of RAM.

http://www.memtest.org/

And you boot that floppy, once you make it. Once
prepared, the files on the floppy cannot be listed.
The "install.bat" writes them in an invisible mode.
But rest assured, the floppy will boot, even though
there is nothing obvious on the floppy. I have a
couple of those floppy diskettes next to me, that
I use for memory testing. In a sense, the contents
of the floppy are their own OS - it's simply a
program that takes control of the entire computer.

Paul
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
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Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
From: Mark Twain <magineer02@yahoo.com>
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The Mem test sounds iffy,. am I making a bootable CD?
If so, I don't have any CD's left. Also there are so many
Mem tests how am I to know which one?

https://s17.postimg.org/62zp32mbj/Mem_test.jpg

In passing, have you noticed FF has changed with black tabs?
I know it doesn't make sense but it seems the 8500 is a tad
slower since.


Robert
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
* Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)

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From: Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2017 04:07:11 -0500
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Xref: feeder.eternal-september.org microsoft.public.windowsxp.general:134621

Mark Twain wrote:

The Mem test sounds iffy,. am I making a bootable CD?
If so, I don't have any CD's left. Also there are so many
Mem tests how am I to know which one?

https://s17.postimg.org/62zp32mbj/Mem_test.jpg

In passing, have you noticed FF has changed with black tabs?
I know it doesn't make sense but it seems the 8500 is a tad
slower since.

Robert

If you have a floppy drive and at least one blank
floppy diskette, memtest fits quite nicely on it.

Some users complain if I mention "floppy", because
they don't have one, or "it's too archaic". Most
of the capacity of a CD would be wasted. But, it's
convenient if you have discs handy.

I use floppies for my copies, and for the machine
that doesn't have a floppy drive cable, I use a
USB floppy drive instead (an external device).

So I don't have a problem with floppies. Once the
boot process is complete and the screen is 640x480,
you can pop the floppy out.

** Memtest86+ V5.01 (27/09/2013)**

Download - Pre-Compiled package for Floppy (DOS - Win)

*******

You might have Firefox 57, since WinXP stops at
Firefox 53, and lucky Windows 7 users get to
continue receiving updates.

Firefox 57 is called "Quantum" for some reason,
and it is a multi-process version. If you look
in Task Manager, you might see four instances
of the word "Firefox" in there.

That's not supposed to slow the machine down.

You might use Task Manager to see if anything
in the machine is mis-behaving (using a lot of CPU).

Firefox will use something like 20% more memory than
the previous version.

The new Firefox is modeled after Google Chrome, and
that's why it has four processes running minimum.
Because Chrome does the same thing. Firefox already
used a Container concept for the Flash plugin (plugincontainer.exe?),
so that if Flash crashed, the browser remained running.
The multiple processes could be used for Process Isolation,
but I suspect that's not really all that practical when
the processes also have to talk to one another. There's
still a possibility the set of processes could freeze or
deadlock, depending on what flaky thing happens.

You can turn off that new feature if you want.

In the URL bar, enter "about:config".

In my copy of Firefox 57, I can see

browser.tabs.remote.autostart False
browser.tabs.remote.autostart.2 True <--- change to False, to make
Firefox run a single
process

You can double-click the entry in the table,
to "flip" the state of a boolean variable
like that one. Once that's done, the next time
you start Firefox, it should behave a little
more like the old version.

But the ugly icons (you know, the issue with
the folder icons in bookmarks), those icons
are now there to stay. The only way to revert
the appearance of the browser, quickly, is to
use an older version. It's not clear
to me whether any "themes" are available
as WebExtensions or not, to go back to the
old icons.

And by all means, use the Task Manager to survey
the state of the machine, when it feels "a little slow".
There might be a reason - something that needs to
be fixed. It might not be Firefox at all.

Paul
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
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Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
From: Mark Twain <magineer02@yahoo.com>
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Well the problem is that I used all my CD's to
make backups etc when we redid the 8500 from
scratch. I used all that I had. So I would have
to buy more just to test the DIMMS and for no
other purpose. I would have to wait until next
week before I could buy any.

So do I or do I not put in both DIMMS?

I'm not up on monitoring the Task Manager so I
wouldn't even know what to look for even if it
is slow, but it did show (4) Firefox entries,..

I took a screenshot of my Task Manager but TinyPic
and Post Image aren't working for me.

I've never used Google Chrome but I believe your
the one who told me it wasn't all that hot. So
now FF is mirroring Chrome? I wish these programmers
would leave well enough alone.

I don't feel comfortable making any changes,.. so
I'll leave it as is but I'm not happy they keep
changing FF. I wonder if I should go back to Explorer?


Robert

Robert
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
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From: Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2017 15:51:09 -0500
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Xref: feeder.eternal-september.org microsoft.public.windowsxp.general:134624

Mark Twain wrote:

Well the problem is that I used all my CD's to
make backups etc when we redid the 8500 from
scratch. I used all that I had. So I would have
to buy more just to test the DIMMS and for no
other purpose. I would have to wait until next
week before I could buy any.

So do I or do I not put in both DIMMS?

I'm not up on monitoring the Task Manager so I
wouldn't even know what to look for even if it
is slow, but it did show (4) Firefox entries,..

I took a screenshot of my Task Manager but TinyPic
and Post Image aren't working for me.

I've never used Google Chrome but I believe your
the one who told me it wasn't all that hot. So
now FF is mirroring Chrome? I wish these programmers
would leave well enough alone.

I don't feel comfortable making any changes,.. so
I'll leave it as is but I'm not happy they keep
changing FF. I wonder if I should go back to Explorer?

Robert

Robert

The memtest.org page also has an option to
prepare a bootable USB stick. That's if you
don't have a floppy to use. I find the floppy
is the best for me, as the executable is small
enough, other kinds of media are a waste.

http://memtest.org/

** Memtest86+ V5.01 (27/09/2013)**

Download - Auto-installer for USB Key (Win 9x/2k/xp/7) *NEW!*

*******

From the Readme file in the installer

"Memtest86+ USB Installer is a script that uses NSIS
to automate the creation of a bootable Memtest86+ USB
Flash Drive. Memtest86+ can be used to test your
system memory for errors."

But to use the USB stick, you have to know how to
get the machine to boot from a USB stick. The popup
boot menu can do that. The key to using the USB stick,
is knowing which key to press at power on, to get the
popup boot menu to appear. It will list all the
storage devices, including the USB stick you have plugged
into the computer. You select the USB stick from the menu,
and then memtest86+ should run soon after. And in this
case, I think when the USB stick is listed in File Explorer,
it will have files. It was the floppy boot method, where
the contents of the floppy were not visible in Windows.
Some of the other methods, use actual file systems to
hold the materials.

*******

You can use any browser you want. I prefer to not have
the one or two Google Updater processes running on my
machine, while Google programs are present. Chrome also
has its share of exploits - and the reason for this, is
it's the dominant browser numerically. There are more copies
of Chrome than anything else. The "bad guys" consequently,
have to focus all their tricks on Chrome, where they can
make the most money. It's sorta like buying fly paper,
and noticing it's hard to keep the paper clean :-)

Paul
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
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Message-ID: <94b9f89e-da43-4f08-b585-f8bca9dcbbe7@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
From: Mark Twain <magineer02@yahoo.com>
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OK,. I guess I'll have to order some CD's.

Robert
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
* Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)

Path: eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.o rg!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG-255@255soft.uk>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2017 06:25:08 +0000
Organization: 255 software
Lines: 14
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In message <94b9f89e-da43-4f08-b585-f8bca9dcbbe7@googlegroups.com>, Mark
Twain <magineer02@yahoo.com> writes:

OK,. I guess I'll have to order some CD's.

Robert

Or salvage a floppy (-:
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

_____
___ |[]|_n_n_I_c
|___||__|###|____)
O-O--O-O+++--O-O
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
* Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)

Path: eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.o rg!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2017 01:41:36 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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Message-ID: <our931$jtn$1@dont-email.me>
References: <7f18b466-63df-408a-bab7-4c3213a16544@googlegroups.com> <c12efa5c-a5cc-4971-a440-8282b843278e@googlegroups.com> <oujgdc$k54$1@dont-email.me> <8345d835-0287-455c-97b6-6237156b2d5b@googlegroups.com> <6aefd384-fdc4-4307-9162-6ac9652ff82e@googlegroups.com> <oujvks$lqs$1@dont-email.me> <52a963b5-0fd8-4fc6-a06d-6c794f9f9d34@googlegroups.com> <5adc8f35-d3ba-40e2-afb6-75eee5281637@googlegroups.com> <e4222b08-a5f5-48a3-bf6e-1b9241582f6b@googlegroups.com> <18183a02-24d7-4fa2-ab77-fac986c26fec@googlegroups.com> <oulepr$cpf$1@dont-email.me> <235c4733-0fdc-4e34-8f87-ea020adb1fd5@googlegroups.com> <oum8t7$hn6$1@dont-email.me> <bf1def57-139d-4755-801e-0c3549cfd283@googlegroups.com> <ounj4f$6pn$1@dont-email.me> <c60f3bc1-5a12-45ec-9fbd-b914be718226@googlegroups.com> <oup0of$ug$1@dont-email.me> <5cb4791d-485c-4204-a997-54ed03593b87@googlegroups.com> <ouqa0d$dvv$1@dont-email.me> <94b9f89e-da43-4f08-b585-f8bca9dcbbe7@googlegroups.com> <hNKIhlbEPSEaFw2s@soft255.demon.co.uk>
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J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

In message <94b9f89e-da43-4f08-b585-f8bca9dcbbe7@googlegroups.com>, Mark Twain <magineer02@yahoo.com> writes:

OK,. I guess I'll have to order some CD's.

Robert

Or salvage a floppy (-:

He might have a USB card read in the floppy slot.
So no floppy.

USB keys are more expensive than a CD or a floppy,
but you get to reuse them. You have to figure out
how to get them to boot of course.

On my really old computers, I can't boot from a USB key,
so that wouldn't be an option. On my year 1999 computer
P2B-S), I'd be using floppy or CD.

But on newer machines, the USB stick is a viable option.
And both his machines, generationally, are new enough.

Apparently, some BIOS hide a setting in the Setup Screen
to turn on popup boot. The magic key can be turned off.
Imagine how annoying that would be. That BIOS screen
also tells you what key to press.

https://www.eightforums.com/attachments/installation-setup/65212d1441061152t-ca nt-boot-usb-key-screenshot_306.jpg

( https://www.eightforums.com/installation-setup/70577-cant-boot-usb-key.html )

Paul
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
* Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)

Path: eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.o rg!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG-255@255soft.uk>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 03:39:14 +0000
Organization: 255 software
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Message-ID: <Sez01zPi5kEaFwQs@soft255.demon.co.uk>
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<hNKIhlbEPSEaFw2s@soft255.demon.co.uk> <our931$jtn$1@dont-email.me> Mime-Version: 1.0
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logging-data="4437"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19empnEWZz95nKe1dcZv3rQ"
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Xref: feeder.eternal-september.org microsoft.public.windowsxp.general:134638

In message <our931$jtn$1@dont-email.me>, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
writes:

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

In message <94b9f89e-da43-4f08-b585-f8bca9dcbbe7@googlegroups.com>,
Mark Twain <magineer02@yahoo.com> writes:

OK,. I guess I'll have to order some CD's.

Robert

Or salvage a floppy (-:

He might have a USB card read in the floppy slot.
So no floppy.

True.

USB keys are more expensive than a CD or a floppy,
but you get to reuse them. You have to figure out
how to get them to boot of course.

Floppies are reusable too!
[]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Electricians do it 'till it Hz.
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
* Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)

Path: eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.o rg!news.albasani.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail From: Ian Jackson <ianREMOVETHISjackson@g3ohx.co.uk>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 08:40:37 +0000
Lines: 27
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<hNKIhlbEPSEaFw2s@soft255.demon.co.uk> <our931$jtn$1@dont-email.me>
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Xref: feeder.eternal-september.org microsoft.public.windowsxp.general:134641

In message <Sez01zPi5kEaFwQs@soft255.demon.co.uk>, "J. P. Gilliver
(John)" <G6JPG-255@255soft.uk> writes

In message <our931$jtn$1@dont-email.me>, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> >writes:

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

In message <94b9f89e-da43-4f08-b585-f8bca9dcbbe7@googlegroups.com>, >>>Mark Twain <magineer02@yahoo.com> writes:

OK,. I guess I'll have to order some CD's.

Robert

Or salvage a floppy (-:

He might have a USB card read in the floppy slot.
So no floppy.

True.

USB keys are more expensive than a CD or a floppy,
but you get to reuse them. You have to figure out
how to get them to boot of course.

Floppies are reusable too!

So are re-write CDs and DVDs!

--
Ian
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
* Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)

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Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
From: Mark Twain <magineer02@yahoo.com>
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Xref: feeder.eternal-september.org microsoft.public.windowsxp.general:134651

I do have a flash key but as you say then
I have to figure a way to get it to boot.
I'll just order some verbatim CD's tomorrow:

https://www.amazon.com/Verbatim-Rewritable-25-Disc-Spindle-95169/dp/B0016025UG/ ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1432718484&sr=1-1

However, another issue has come up, I cannot
find my computer bookmark folder? I checked
the trash bin and it's not there and I checked
every folder and I can't find it. I have no idea
what happened to it? How could a folder just disappear?

Could I just pop in my backup HD and copy/paste from
it without doing an actual recovery since we made it
bootable and should have most of the files/links I need.

In passing, I don't like this new FF version at all
there's a notable lag and definitely do not like the black
tabs and they've switched the controls around a bit.


Thanks,
Robert
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
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Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 09:00:49 -0800 (PST)
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Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
From: Mark Twain <magineer02@yahoo.com>
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I tried looking for the computer folder on the
WD backup HD, but apparently the bootable version
doesn't have what I'm searching for. Especially your
instructions for doing backups and recovery with pics.
I don't want to loose those as they are very helpful
but I also don't want to have to restore my entire 8500
just to get the computer links/folder.

I checked again in all folders and I cannot find the
computer folder and have no idea what happened to it.

Robert


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Path: eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.o rg!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 13:29:35 -0500
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Mark Twain wrote:

I tried looking for the computer folder on the
WD backup HD, but apparently the bootable version
doesn't have what I'm searching for. Especially your
instructions for doing backups and recovery with pics.
I don't want to loose those as they are very helpful
but I also don't want to have to restore my entire 8500
just to get the computer links/folder.

I checked again in all folders and I cannot find the
computer folder and have no idea what happened to it.

Robert

If you're using Macrium, you can access an MRIMG backup
you've made, as if the contents are their own hard drive.

In other words, you don't have to restore it. You can browse
inside the MRIMG instead.

In this short article, their example MRIMG only has one
partition in it. Your backup could have more than one.

https://knowledgebase.macrium.com/display/KNOW/Browsing+Macrium+Reflect+images+ and+backups+in+Windows+Explorer

In their example, the partition they're playing with
was called "Recovery". They put that tick mark by it, because
they wanted it to mount like a hard drive. They assigned
a unique drive letter "E" for the drive. You can use
a higher drive letter if you want. I picked "W" for my
description below. "W" will become the drive letter
for your (backup) version of "C".


https://knowledgebase.macrium.com/download/attachments/2457763/image2014-12-29% 2020%3A16%3A18.png?version=1&modificationDate=1510665962877&api=v2&effects=drop -shadow

In your case, you'd want to select the C: drive that
was inside the backup image. You could only refer to
it by name, if you assigned the C: drive a nice name
before the backup was made. Not all my partitions have
names, and if that happens, you can glance over at the
"size" field, to figure out which partition is which.

In your case, you only need to select one of N partitions
for mounting. You don't have to mount the garbage partitions
like System Reserved for this mission.

Once you're happy with the dialog settings, you click OK.
There's no need to tick the "Access restricted folders"
one, since you don't need to get inside System Volume Information
or other "Access Denied" folders, Your bookmarks folder may
be on your (backup) C:, which will be assigned a letter
like "W" when you mount it. It will be any drive letter
except C: when it mounts. The drive letter selector is
change-able, and you don't have to accept the default
assignment. The purpose of picking a letter you like,
is so you won't confuse the two partitions.

After you click OK, there will be two very similar partitions.
The new one, the W: , should pop up.

C: Your regular OS drive
W: Copy of C: from backup <--- new partition pops up

Now, you can use File Explorer to examine W: , look for
your bookmarks folder, and so on.

When you're finished with accessing W: and copying off the
Bookmarks folder, you can follow that same article for the
"dis-mount" procedure, which will cause W: to disappear.

"Unmounting a temporary mounted drive"


https://knowledgebase.macrium.com/download/attachments/2457763/image2014-12-29% 2020%3A51%3A43.png?version=1&modificationDate=1510665963047&api=v2&effects=drop -shadow

This procedure works, as long as your backup drive is
physically connected and the drive is powered up so you
can gain access to your collection of MRIMG files. Once
you're done with the external drive, you can select the
"Safely Remove" icon in the lower right, and then the
external will be ready for power-off and disconnect again.

You don't have to boot the backup drive and restore something,
every time you need a single file. Just "mount" the previous
backup using a nice drive letter like "W", get your goods,
copy them off, then dismount "W" and... done.

HTH,
Paul
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Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
From: Mark Twain <magineer02@yahoo.com>
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This is all very confusing...

I'm not understanding dialog settings

what is a N partition?

You said to use Macrium but your also
talking about using Explorer,....

I'm not understanding this.

Robert
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
* Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)

Path: eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.o rg!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG-255@255soft.uk>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 02:47:31 +0000
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In message <8d3d0d14-c011-451f-90ac-d87e6a113bd6@googlegroups.com>, Mark
Twain <magineer02@yahoo.com> writes:

This is all very confusing...

I'm not understanding dialog settings

what is a N partition?

You said to use Macrium but your also
talking about using Explorer,....

He meant, when you have "mounted" a Macrium image of a partition, it
actually appears in Explorer as if it was a drive/partition, rather like
a USB stick does, and disappears from Explorer (again, like a USB stick
does) when you "dismount" it [or unplug the drive with the image on it].
(I think; I've never done the "mount/dismount" thing.)

I'm not understanding this.

Robert

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

You've made a happy man very old. - Stephen Fry, on QI, 2014-10-18

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From: Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 21:59:00 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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Xref: feeder.eternal-september.org microsoft.public.windowsxp.general:134656

Mark Twain wrote:

This is all very confusing...

I'm not understanding dialog settings

what is a N partition?

You said to use Macrium but your also
talking about using Explorer,....

I'm not understanding this.

Robert

Physical Disk

+-----+-----------------+---------------------+-- -- -- -- --
| MBR | System Reserved | C: partition for OS | Data partitions... +-----+-----------------+---------------------+-- -- -- -- --

You made a Macrium Backup several days ago - this is the MRIMG file
which contains an image of the selected partitions. "some.mrimg"

+------------------------------+
| MBR | SR | C Partition | Data|
+------------------------------+
| X |<--- tick this partition only, not the others

Use the mounter W: <--- select a drive letter to mount the backup

Now, in File Explorer, a new partition appears, called W:
and it shows the contents of the backup you made. You can
navigate inside the W: virtual disk, find the Bookmarks
folder and retrieve it, and copy it to the "real C"
partition.

So what's happening is, the MRIMG file is being made to
appear in File Explorer, as if there was a real physical
disk drive. It's called "browsing a backup image", and
several backup programs have this same capability,
although the GUI interface will look quite different.

By browsing the backup file, you can "pick" individual files
out of the MRIMG, without needing to restore the entire backup.
It's very convenient. You can get your Bookmarks folder back,
without a lot of sweat.

Paul
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Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
From: Mark Twain <magineer02@yahoo.com>
Injection-Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 03:13:04 +0000
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I tried it and now I can't get the WD backup
to eject safely.

http://i63.tinypic.com/207qql0.jpg

http://i66.tinypic.com/10pr1ar.jpg

http://i65.tinypic.com/4vs0h2.jpg

http://i65.tinypic.com/f2isqt.jpg

http://i68.tinypic.com/ru6x5f.jpg

Robert
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
* Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)

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Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
From: Mark Twain <magineer02@yahoo.com>
Injection-Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 03:16:28 +0000
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It only showed me My Documents files,..
I need the computer bookmarked folder.

Thanks,
Robert
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
* Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)

Path: eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.o rg!aioe.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 22:56:53 -0500
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Mark Twain wrote:

It only showed me My Documents files,..
I need the computer bookmarked folder.

Thanks,
Robert

And what volume do you keep that on ?

Is it somewhere on the C: drive ?

Where would it normally be located ?

Paul
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
* Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)

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Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
From: Mark Twain <magineer02@yahoo.com>
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And what volume do you keep that on ?

Is it somewhere on the C: drive ?

Where would it normally be located ?

Paul

Well it's on the FF sidebar when online. So
I don't know how to look that up? I also still
don't have a clue why it disappeared? I've checked
every folder just in case I accidentally moved it
with my mouse but I can't find it. Is there a way
to search for it? What was that program you gave me
to search for things? (See why I need the folder?)

I also still need your assistance to detach the WD HD
from the 8500.

Thanks,
Robert
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
* Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)

Path: eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.o rg!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 01:09:54 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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References: <7f18b466-63df-408a-bab7-4c3213a16544@googlegroups.com> <18183a02-24d7-4fa2-ab77-fac986c26fec@googlegroups.com> <oulepr$cpf$1@dont-email.me> <235c4733-0fdc-4e34-8f87-ea020adb1fd5@googlegroups.com> <oum8t7$hn6$1@dont-email.me> <bf1def57-139d-4755-801e-0c3549cfd283@googlegroups.com> <ounj4f$6pn$1@dont-email.me> <c60f3bc1-5a12-45ec-9fbd-b914be718226@googlegroups.com> <oup0of$ug$1@dont-email.me> <5cb4791d-485c-4204-a997-54ed03593b87@googlegroups.com> <ouqa0d$dvv$1@dont-email.me> <94b9f89e-da43-4f08-b585-f8bca9dcbbe7@googlegroups.com> <hNKIhlbEPSEaFw2s@soft255.demon.co.uk> <our931$jtn$1@dont-email.me> <1b4ffbbb-34dc-4a5a-a5a1-29713bd7926a@googlegroups.com> <05bf1d02-efee-4746-86c0-f07e3df0b26d@googlegroups.com> <ov1rae$cqs$1@dont-email.me> <8d3d0d14-c011-451f-90ac-d87e6a113bd6@googlegroups.com> <ov2p5j$hat$1@dont-email.me> <149b0b29-5ca2-461b-917d-4f5670322138@googlegroups.com> <ov2si0$1bkq$1@gioia.aioe.org> <957a41e3-15c8-4f51-956a-fe25edffa84d@googlegroups.com>
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Mark Twain wrote:

And what volume do you keep that on ?

Is it somewhere on the C: drive ?

Where would it normally be located ?

Paul

Well it's on the FF sidebar when online. So
I don't know how to look that up? I also still
don't have a clue why it disappeared? I've checked
every folder just in case I accidentally moved it
with my mouse but I can't find it. Is there a way
to search for it? What was that program you gave me
to search for things? (See why I need the folder?)

I also still need your assistance to detach the WD HD
from the 8500.

Thanks,
Robert

I have a suspicion you're referring to a folder
within the Bookmarks Manager.

In the first picture, is the Bookmarks Sidebar. To get this
in the old Firefox, you selected Customize and added the Sidebar
icon to the tool bar. Then clicked that to select Bookmarks Sidebar.
And that would appear on the left. There are two Bookmark Sidebars
in the picture. The left-hand one is Firefox 53. The right hand one
is Firefox 59 (Nightly compile). You can see the color scheme
changed around Firefox 57, and the image is that "flat" looking.

https://s7.postimg.org/f05kbgg0r/firefox53_vs_59.gif

In both pictures, you can see "BobsFolder" which is a
test folder I created for sorting my bookmarks. This could
be what you've done, sorted your bookmarks into categories.
Now, yours have disappeared, and the bookmark sidebar, or
the Bookmarks Manager (control-shift-B).

So the reason I'm showing both Sidebars, is to show you that
Firefox 59 (after Quantum) supports the bookmarks just the
same way as Firefox 53. The appearance is the same. I didn't
lose any bookmarks.

In addition, in Firefox 59, I did a "restore" of the bookmarks.
When I started Firefox 59, it started in a private profile, not
the same profile as Firefox 53. To "populate" the Sidebar and
bring in my bookmarks, I did a restore.

To do this, first I had to locate the location on the C: drive
where the Bookmark Backups are stored. That's in the bottom middle
of the following picture. And in this picture, I use the
Bookmark Manager to do a restore.

https://s7.postimg.org/7iwcwqix7/restore_bookmarks.gif

So when I restored bookmarks from Firefox 53, they worked.

*******

If your Sidebar appears damaged, you could use the Restore
feature, to move backward in time and use a previous bookmarks.
That's why the backups are there.

In addition, you can even create a backup of the current bookmarks.
Although in your case, they're probably pretty empty.

In any case, that second picture should show you both Backup (jsonlz4)
and Restore (from jsonlz4) files. And the menu shows the same dates
as the file folder I show in the bottom of the picture.

*******

To disconnect the WDC external drive.

1) Go to Disk Management.
2) Use the left-most square on the line for the WDC drive.
Select "Offline" to put the drive offline.
3) Now, the Safely Remove for USB devices in the lower
right hand corner of the screen should work.
A confirmation dialog should appear indicating this time it worked.

This workaround has the side effect, that the next time the
WDC is connected, you'll have to:

1) Go to Disk Management (diskmgmt.msc)
2) Use the left-most square on the line for the WDC drive
you plugged in. Select "Online".
3) Only now can you use the partitions on the WDC and
make your backups.

The workaround solves the "busy NTFS TXF problem", for which
I don't have a real cure. I have caught Macrium using that
function, but I don't know why they bother with it. I had
a performance issue, did a little forensic work, and I could
see some TXF activity multiple times a second, slowing
down the data block writes to disk.

It's possible killing the Macrium service might fix it,
but I didn't try that :-) Too messy.

*******

I haven't looked at your pictures yet, and wanted to
write this first and forward it so you can get some
bookmarks without any more "Macrium fun" :-) With some
luck, there are probably enough bookmark backups, for
you to fix this using only what is on the C: drive already.

The only thing that's hard to navigate here, is finding
the Appdata folder which is hidden. You won't need to
try this, to use the Restore menu. This is only in case
you want to see this folder, for example, to check whether
all of these backups were destroyed. I don't know yet whether
there are actually any backups for you to use. So this
string is the general format for where Firefox stored
the Bookmark backups.

C:\Users\User Name\Appdata\Roaming\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles\abcd1234.default\bookmarkbackups

You can try the following in Command Prompt as yourself.

cd /d C:\Users\User Name\Appdata\Roaming\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles

explorer .

and the File Explorer window that appears, might be
able to burrow below the Appdata folder. Substitute
your own account name, for my bogus "User Name" field.

I haven't tested that, and that might be easier
than fooling around with the folder view in File
Explorer so all the hidden stuff is unhidden.

Paul
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
* Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)

Path: eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.o rg!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG-255@255soft.uk>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 06:22:59 +0000
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In message <957a41e3-15c8-4f51-956a-fe25edffa84d@googlegroups.com>, Mark
Twain <magineer02@yahoo.com> writes:

And what volume do you keep that on ?

Is it somewhere on the C: drive ?

Where would it normally be located ?

Paul

Well it's on the FF sidebar when online. So
I don't know how to look that up? I also still

I think the Firefox bookmarks are somewhere in the Firefox profile - I'm
not sure they're that obvious these days. For better information, ask in
the Firefox newsgroup (you need to sign up to the Mozilla news server to
get it, but it's free).

don't have a clue why it disappeared? I've checked
every folder just in case I accidentally moved it
with my mouse but I can't find it. Is there a way

Two possibilities I've thought of: firstly, if you have Firefox synched
across two or more machines, and have deleted them on one, then (if I understand correctly what sync is supposed to do) they'll soon be
deleted from the other(s). My other thought was that if it's the sidebar
that has disappeared, then maybe you've just accidentally turned off the display of it - varies with version, but try under View first. (I
recently wondered where my status bar had gone - I have the status4ever add-on, and I even tried disabling and re-enabling that, which didn't
cure it - but I'd just somehow unticked it in the View menu.) If you've
still got the sidebar displaying, but it's just missing one folder
(called computer?), it won't be that.

to search for it? What was that program you gave me
to search for things? (See why I need the folder?)

The one that finds files, if you know part of the filename, usually
before you've finished typing it! if your partitions are NTFS (which is
the default for XP), is "Everything", from http://www.voidtools.com/; if you're looking for something actually inside a file, Agent Ransack seems
to be the one most people like.
[]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

She's showing her age a little bit. I always say she doesn't have teething troubles, she has denture troubles! - Timothy West (on their narrowboat!), RT 2014-March
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Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 22:53:36 -0800 (PST)
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Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
From: Mark Twain <magineer02@yahoo.com>
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Yes, your correct it's under bookmarks
manager however I didn't sort anything
and the rest of my bookmarks are intact.
I haven't done anything other than updates.

If I do a bookmark restore it would wipe
out all recent bookmarks because it wouldn't
let me just select a single folder would it?

I followed your instructions and was able to
safely remove the WD HD./ I realize I have to
go back and switch to online when I want to
use the WD.

Robert
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Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
From: Mark Twain <magineer02@yahoo.com>
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The sidebar hasn't disappeared,
only one folder from it.

Ah,, Agent Ransack is the program
I was thinking of!!! Paul had given
me a link for it.

The link for voidtools offers 4 options
to download so which one? Paul knows my
history of downloads and I've gotten into
some bad situations.

Thanks,
Robert
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Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
From: Mark Twain <magineer02@yahoo.com>
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Paul, it was Agent Ransack that I was think of,.
would that be able to find the missing folder?

I'm getting tired,.. so have to get a nap and will
come back later.

Thanks,
Robert
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From: Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 02:30:52 -0500
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Mark Twain wrote:

Paul, it was Agent Ransack that I was think of,.
would that be able to find the missing folder?

I'm getting tired,.. so have to get a nap and will
come back later.

Thanks,
Robert

You probably still have Agent Ransack installed.

It's pretty good at finding stuff the Windows one
might miss.

But I would question what you think you're searching for.

Each .jsonlz4 backup file, paints the whole thing.

Bookmarks \
Folder1 \___ These are rendered by a single jsonlz4 file.
Folder2 /
Folder3 /

To protect *all* your current bookmarks, use the
Bookmark Manager and do an Export. Examine the lines
of HTML (in a text editor). You could count the bookmarks
that way.

To protect the current formatting, use the Backup button
in Bookmarks Manager. That converts the current state
of your bookmarks and folders, into a jsonlz4 file.

To try a previous set of bookmarks, use the Restore.
This could return your Folders.

Then, use the Export, to export the older bookmarks.
Rename this file to "bookmarks_old.html".

Now, compare bookmarks_old.html to bookmarks.html
and see how many bookmarks have gone missing.

The bookmarks are also stored in the sqlite files,
but we're not supposed to play with those.

That Bookmarks Manager, gives you all the tools
you need, to go backward or forward in time. by making
a backup now, that will add a new jsonlz4 file to the
collection. Then, when you go "backwards" with
a Restore, you can also go "forwards" again, by
using the backup you just made this instant.

Once you've had a nap, I think this will be a lot clearer.

Even if you choose not to open the Exported bookmarks.html
files with Notepad, just the *size* of each file, will give an
indication of the amount of *damage* done.

Paul
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Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
From: Mark Twain <magineer02@yahoo.com>
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Well, this is weird, I posted a reply awhile
ago but it still isn't showing up? If I don't
see it later I'll re-post.

Robert
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Message-ID: <e8bd57be-446d-4d1a-81e9-e127f8b86172@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
From: Mark Twain <magineer02@yahoo.com>
Injection-Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 18:00:01 +0000
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I don't know why my other post did not take.
so I'll retype it,...

I thought Agent Ransack might be able to find the
computer bookmark folder.


I tried to export my bookmarks but said I wasn't
authorized so went to the Admin Account and there
was my computer bookmark folder!

I exported the bookmarks to the C: partition then
backed them up but it put them on the desktop.

Since I didn't know how to proceed I copy/pasted the
folder and sent it by email to my user account. I went
through it link by link and now have my computer folder
back.

Tedious but it worked and now have all your valuable
instructions on backups, cloning and recovery with pics.

I must have messed up somewhere but I tried to follow
your instructions.

Robert
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
* Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)

Path: eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.o rg!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG-255@255soft.uk>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 18:31:35 +0000
Organization: 255 software
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In message <3828fde1-59bb-4a52-aa65-79ba0016a27c@googlegroups.com>, Mark
Twain <magineer02@yahoo.com> writes:

Paul, it was Agent Ransack that I was think of,.
would that be able to find the missing folder?

I'm getting tired,.. so have to get a nap and will
come back later.

Thanks,
Robert

Well, I've read that you've got your missing bookmark folder back,
though by a tedious method.

Basically, although Firefox (and other browsers) make your bookmarks
_look_ like folders (by using the same icons), they aren't really:
they're just inside Firefox.

I would save your bookmarks, now you've got them back, from time to
time; Firefox gives you two options of how - in its own format, or as an
HTML file. The HTML file is easier to work with (including from other browsers), though I think can't easily be loaded back into Firefox
retaining all the structure, which its own format can.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Quantity is no substitute for quality, but it's the only one we've got.
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
* Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)

Path: eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.o rg!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG-255@255soft.uk>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 18:37:26 +0000
Organization: 255 software
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logging-data="31081"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19zKjx0JYF+SNnKitDDZIOf"
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In message <4ba29592-a26f-4505-b43f-28387bcd93e0@googlegroups.com>, Mark
Twain <magineer02@yahoo.com> writes:

The sidebar hasn't disappeared,
only one folder from it.

Ah,, Agent Ransack is the program
I was thinking of!!! Paul had given
me a link for it.

The link for voidtools offers 4 options
to download so which one? Paul knows my
history of downloads and I've gotten into
some bad situations.

Thanks,
Robert

I think for you, the installer would be better than the .zip (which is a portable version); if you know you have a 64-bit operating system, then
get that one, otherwise get the first one (which will run fine on a
64-bit system; just the 64-bit version will work a bit better on a
64-bit system).

It's definitely a tool worth having!
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Quantity is no substitute for quality, but it's the only one we've got.
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
* Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)

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Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 12:46:20 -0800 (PST)
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Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
From: Mark Twain <magineer02@yahoo.com>
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Understood, but where do I put the bookmarks when
I export and backup? Because as I said, I put them
on the C: partition and they ended up on the
desktop.

Robert
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
* Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)

Path: eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.o rg!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG-255@255soft.uk>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 21:00:17 +0000
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In message <46f2b79f-1491-4037-aa67-3fc0be35cb46@googlegroups.com>, Mark
Twain <magineer02@yahoo.com> writes:

Understood, but where do I put the bookmarks when
I export and backup? Because as I said, I put them
on the C: partition and they ended up on the
desktop.

Robert

Well, I've just tried with my Firefox 26, and whether I save then as
..json or .html, it asks me where to put them; the .json defaulted to
desktop and the .html to where I last saved something, but in both cases
it gave me the option to choose somewhere else. It's possible that the
Firefox "ask" setting for page saves and/or downloads might affect how
your bookmark saving happens.

I'd generally save them among my data on my D: partition (probably in D:\backups\Firefox or something like that), but it's really up to you
where you save them.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind. - Mahatma Gandhi (according to the film Gandhi [1982])
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
* Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)

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Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
From: Mark Twain <magineer02@yahoo.com>
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So for example could I save them
in a folder in 'My Documents' or
would they need to go somewhere
like 'Programs'? or doesn't matter?

Thanks,
Robert
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
* Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)

Path: eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.o rg!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2017 03:37:02 -0500
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Mark Twain wrote:

So for example could I save them
in a folder in 'My Documents' or
would they need to go somewhere
like 'Programs'? or doesn't matter?

Thanks,
Robert

Since the backup is a data item, like a shopping list
or a tax form, put it where you normally store such
stuff.

Store it in a place you will remember.

The restore function can fetch a jsonlz4 from a
folder other than the profile, so you really
should be able to put it somewhere else.

Firefox has the two formats. It can Export to HTML.
The backups it keeps are stored in jsonlz4 format.
That's a human readable json, with an unnecessary
compression step (lz4) added, to muck things up. And
to boot, the idiots at Mozilla changed the header on
the LZ4, breaking my little C program that decompresses
these files. Boo and hiss, Mozilla.

Paul
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
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Path: eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.o rg!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG-255@255soft.uk>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2017 09:28:20 +0000
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In message <4c052c93-3660-41b2-8058-e00a479b3457@googlegroups.com>, Mark
Twain <magineer02@yahoo.com> writes:

So for example could I save them
in a folder in 'My Documents' or
would they need to go somewhere
like 'Programs'? or doesn't matter?

Thanks,
Robert

See Paul's reply for detail; basically, you can store them wherever you
like, though I (and several others) would suggest you don't store
anything data-like in Program [File]s.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

I've always wanted to be happy, so I decided to be - Neil Baldwin
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
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Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
From: Mark Twain <magineer02@yahoo.com>
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I just created a bookmark folder in 'My
Documents' and exported/backed up the
bookmarks and put them there and then
verified they were in fact in the folder.

Regarding Macrium,..I'm still not clear
how to proceed after changing the partition
letter? I'll have to re-read that again ,.....

I've order the Verbatim CD-RW's and
will do the Memtest each one at a time
but may need some assistance.

Thanks guys,
Robert

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Path: eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.o rg!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2017 17:41:13 -0500
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Xref: feeder.eternal-september.org microsoft.public.windowsxp.general:134687

Mark Twain wrote:

I just created a bookmark folder in 'My
Documents' and exported/backed up the
bookmarks and put them there and then
verified they were in fact in the folder.

Regarding Macrium,..I'm still not clear
how to proceed after changing the partition
letter? I'll have to re-read that again ,.....

I've order the Verbatim CD-RW's and
will do the Memtest each one at a time
but may need some assistance.

Thanks guys,
Robert

When opening an MRIMG for browsing, you're setting the
drive letter for the "backup" copy of C: so you know
what it is when looking in File Explorer. If you set it
to W: say, then when you're looking in File Explorer
you can say to yourself "Oh, yeah, that W: is my snapshot
of the machine from a week ago". Then you can use File
Explorer to pull a copy of something you lost, out of
the MRIMG file. Because it's just sitting there in
File Explorer.

When you're done, you click the W: and "dismiss it" as
it doesn't need to stay mounted like that forever.
It's not hurting anything, but say, you wouldn't want
your searches on the machine, to keep traversing
that old copy of the system partition. It might
be a waste of your time for that to happen. I
usually dis-mount my Macrium image, right after
I get out some file I want. (In one case, it was
the profile folder for my USENET client, as my
USENET client likes to corrupt the news files.)

*******

You will only need one CD for the memtest creation.
If you bought CD-RW, they can be erased too and you
can reuse them. I have mostly erasable media here, and
recycle some of my installer DVDs rather than keep
burning brand new ones all the time.

And when I receive ISO files (for making CDs), I just
burn them with IMGBurn. A program like Nero gets picky
about content size, but IMGBurn will burn an optical
disc as long as the content fits.

Paul
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Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
From: Mark Twain <magineer02@yahoo.com>
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I'll copy/paste your instructions and do the
same with your originals and re-read them
and try it as a test.

I do have CD-RW's but I as explained those
have all the backup information when we brought
the 8500 back up from scratch when I lost the MBR
and I don't want to overwrite those in case I need
them again! That sure was a long post and probably
set a record! *L* Thanks again for sticking with me
and walking me through all that!

I've already ordered the CD's in any case and
will keep them around for things like this.

I use to use Nero as well but thought you gave me
a download for IMGBurn but I can't seem to find it?
Could you please provide me with another?

Thanks,
Robert
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Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
From: Mark Twain <magineer02@yahoo.com>
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Assuming that after testing both DIIMS
and they turn out OK. Would it be beneficial
to add another set of 2x2GB DIMMS?


How do you know which to choose?


https://www.google.com/search?q=2gb+dimms&source=lnms&tbm=shop&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEw j6z7_ppdfXAhXhj1QKHatoDWQQ_AUICigB&biw=1700&bih=914

https://www.staples.com/2gb+dimms/directory_2gb%2520dimms

Thanks,
Robert


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Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
From: Mark Twain <magineer02@yahoo.com>
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I just re-read the instructions and the problem
I have with using Macrium for browsing is the
command prompt commands because as you know I'm
not all that good at that and the context has to
be precise.

However, it seems that if I use File Explorer I
can accomplish the same thing.

Robert
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
* Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)

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From: Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2017 09:49:50 -0500
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Xref: feeder.eternal-september.org microsoft.public.windowsxp.general:134694

Mark Twain wrote:

Assuming that after testing both DIIMS
and they turn out OK. Would it be beneficial
to add another set of 2x2GB DIMMS?

How do you know which to choose?

https://www.google.com/search?q=2gb+dimms&source=lnms&tbm=shop&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEw j6z7_ppdfXAhXhj1QKHatoDWQQ_AUICigB&biw=1700&bih=914

https://www.staples.com/2gb+dimms/directory_2gb%2520dimms

Thanks,
Robert

For those playing at home, this is Windows 7.

Windows 7 x64 will comfortably use 1GB for the OS portion.
In your case, with 2x2GB installed, this leaves 3GB
for application usage.

Do you think you will need more RAM for say Firefox ?
I haven't checked while my copy of Firefox is running
lately, to see if it uses more. I know in one experiment
some time ago, related to your interest in Yahoo News,
I got Firefox using 1GB of RAM while visiting that page.
In a second test, I could no longer reproduce such a
high usage. It uses a lot less now.

So there may be times you need more RAM. I can't really
guess at what your "worst case" usage pattern is.

I'm on WinXP with 3.2GB of RAM or so to play with, and
I haven't really had a problem yet with running out.
That's the limit of my 32 bit OS on it. (I have other
OSes I use, but WinXP is my "daily driver".)

While there's probably some tool to look for the
"Commit Peak" on Windows 7, you have to collect operational
data for a few days to get some idea what your peak usage is.

I personally prefer to do this by "dead reckoning", using
what I know about each application to chart usage. And then
decide whether more RAM is required.

*******

In "lucky cases", something is written on the RAM sticks,
which may help when making future purchases. Like a label
that gives the timing ("5-5-5-15") as well as a speed ("DDR3-2400").
Then, when you go shopping, you have some idea.

Other options include consulting the Crucial.com or Kingston.com
search pages. There, you can enter model info and find out what
to use.

http://www.crucial.com/usa/en/compatible-upgrade-for/Dell/optiplex-780-desktop

The densest option there is 2x4GB for $75 or so. The 2x2GB
kit is a bit cheaper. There should be four items listed for
sale on that previous link (click the button to show them).

http://www.crucial.com/usa/en/optiplex-780-desktop/CT7339271

DDR3L-1600
Total Capacity: 8GB Kit (4GBx2)
Specs: DDR3 PC3-12800 CAS 11 UDIMM (unbuffered) NON-ECC DDR3-1600 1.35V

Now, the thing is, that is DDR3L at 1.35V and not the same
as regular DDR3 at 1.50V. Can you mix them ? Does the VDIMM
auto-switch or does it always run the DIMMs at 1.5V ? Dunno.
I think my DDR3 here runs 1.5V and I don't even know if
mine (my newest machine) even supports DDR3L.

If you bought 2x4GB, you could pull the 2x2GB set and just
run the 2x4GB set. As an example of side-stepping the issue.

Summary:

1) Demonstrate the need first. Using Task Manager, what is
your Commit Peak. Or alternately, just watch RAM usage when
several browsers or programs are open and see how much you
are using.

2) It's nice if the RAM types match. I think 1.35V RAM can run
at 1.5V, but I doubt 1.5V RAM is all that happy at 1.35V.
And I don't know what mechanism the system uses to decide
what to do. It can read the SPD before programming the chip
registers, which also gives it a chance to change the voltage
if it wants. I don't really know if 1.5V systems just stick
with 1.5V and leave it at that. So you would want to collect
more info about the RAM you've currently got.

A copy of CPUZ from here, can dump some info about the RAM.
But the info isn't the same as the "label" on the RAM. It's
techie info that's hard to map backwards to actual brand
and SKU info. But this is about the best I can do for an
electronic utility to read out the DIMMs.

https://www.cpuid.com/softwares/cpu-z.html

The first purple download link is an EXE installer,
so leaves a permanent copy in Program Files.

The second ZIP version, you run that as a portable folder.
You unpack the ZIP into a folder in your downloads, and
when you run the EXE file, it should just open a window
with the hardware details. Those are the available choices.

It has a memory tab, so you can list the techie details
of the sticks. It should include timing and speed. For
the clock speed, you take the number from the CPU info
and double it. An 800 clock listing would be DDR3-1600
RAM. Several timings will be listed, and the set with
the largest numbers is probably the "full speed"
timing set.

The machine I'm typing on, the CAS6 DDR2 died on it,
and I got a chance to buy some more. And I got some
slightly faster CAS5 DDR2 with the same clock speed.
If there's a speedup effect, I can't see it :-) .
And on even more modern machines, these CAS timing details
seem to be making less and less of a difference.

*******

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dell_OptiPlex

780 (Yr.2009) Q45 DDR3-1066/1333 (Intel AMT features disabled)

A DDR3-1600 stick would just gear down to the
slower speed. And the BIOS adjusts the CAS
accordingly.

It says the 780 is DDR3, which tells me the memory
slots run at 1.5V and so 1.35V RAM should run OK
in there. The 1.35V RAM is supposed to tolerate 1.5V.
I expect this is why Crucial lists it as compatible.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDR3_SDRAM#DDR3L_and_DDR3U_extensions

The DDR3L and DDR3U specifications are compatible with the original
DDR3 standard and can run at either the lower voltage or at 1.50 V.[19]

HTH,
Paul
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
* Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)

Path: eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.o rg!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2017 09:57:42 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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Xref: feeder.eternal-september.org microsoft.public.windowsxp.general:134695

Mark Twain wrote:

I'll copy/paste your instructions and do the
same with your originals and re-read them
and try it as a test.

I do have CD-RW's but I as explained those
have all the backup information when we brought
the 8500 back up from scratch when I lost the MBR
and I don't want to overwrite those in case I need
them again! That sure was a long post and probably
set a record! *L* Thanks again for sticking with me
and walking me through all that!

I've already ordered the CD's in any case and
will keep them around for things like this.

I use to use Nero as well but thought you gave me
a download for IMGBurn but I can't seem to find it?
Could you please provide me with another?

Thanks,
Robert

I recommend Imgburn version 2.5.0.0 and
once it is installed, enter preferences and
"disable updates". It will pester you each time
it starts, to do an update. You want to stick
with 2.5.0.0 because it has no adware.

http://www.oldversion.com/windows/download/imgburn-2-5-0-0

2.5.0.0_SetupImgBurn_2.5.0.0.exe 2,169,915 bytes Jul 26, 2009
CRC32: 39CD6FC6
MD5: F3791CFACDAC03B9E676E44AA2630243
SHA-1: E07BCC23B495D0A966BAE359EA9E0E3A11888454

The download button for that is green in color and says:

+-----------------------------------------------+
| Download Now | |
| | |
| V |
| |
| Tested: Free from spyware, adware and viruses |
+-----------------------------------------------+

Paul
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
* Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)

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From: Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2017 03:37:48 -0500
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Mark Twain wrote:

Here's my folder options:

http://i67.tinypic.com/4kdv1y.jpg

Robert

Second from the bottom item:

Hide extensions for known file types

You want to *untick* that one, and click Apply.
I usually go up to the "Apply to Folders" button
and apply the style to all the folders afterwards,
so I can see the file extensions everywhere.

Microsoft really shouldn't hide the extensions
by default.

Paul
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
* Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)

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From: Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2017 03:40:47 -0500
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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Mark Twain wrote:

I do hear the CD engage like it's going
to fire up but it doesn't. It takes me to
the sign-in page and I can hear the drive
dis-engage.

Robert

Have you been into the BIOS setup screen before ?

Perhaps you can check in there and make sure the
CD is in the order, before any hard drives.

On my machines here, a typical prioritization is

floppy
CD/DVD
hard drive #3 <--- depends on what one is the "normal" one
#1
#2

By putting the floppy and cd first, if there
is any media in them, it boots, and if there
is no media in either device, the hard drive
boots as normal. Some hardware comes set up that
way by default.

Paul
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
* Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)

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From: Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2017 20:22:58 -0500
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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Mark Twain wrote:

http://i64.tinypic.com/5dld7o.jpg

http://i64.tinypic.com/95ydg7.jpg

Robert

You don't have your file extensions turned
on in the File Explorer display. The file
you downloaded is .iso.zip and once you click
that, there is a .iso inside it that you copy
out into your downloads.

You can learn how to allow file extensions
to be seen, using the info here.

https://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/10570-file-extensions-hide-show.html

It must have worked properly, because IMGBurn
started burning it.

Paul
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Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
From: Mark Twain <magineer02@yahoo.com>
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I do hear the CD engage like it's going
to fire up but it doesn't. It takes me to
the sign-in page and I can hear the drive
dis-engage.

Robert
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Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
From: Mark Twain <magineer02@yahoo.com>
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Here's my folder options:

http://i67.tinypic.com/4kdv1y.jpg

Robert
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As I said, we'll go with your recommendations...
taking into account the heat issue,.. it's your
call. If you feel 4 is OK then we'll do 4GB ,..

Thanks,
Robert
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Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
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Mark Twain wrote:

Let's max out the 780,.. the only thing
we did when I got it was add a video card
I believe.

Could this be it? I had it bookmarked.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130635

Since were going to max out the DIMMS is
there anything else I should do? Like add
another fan? (a quiet one)

I presently have it sitting on the floor
(on a board) do you think I should raise it
for better airflow? The 8500 is sitting on top
of my old 486 tower I use as a pedestal base
and painted it black. It brings the 8500 at the
perfect level to the desk. The 780 is next to
it.

Since were going to max out the 780,.. $150 - $200
do we need to continue the DIMM tests? Should
I run the test for all the new DIMMS?

I'll let you select the new DIMMS as if it were your
computer and go with your choice as I did with selecting
the Dell 780.

Once you give me your selection I'll buy it when I can
and then let you know,..

Many Thanks,
Robert

Well, you know the spec for what you've got,
and that the Dell info said DDR3-1066/1333. Which
DIMM speeds it might use, might depend on the CPU
FSB. Third-party motherboards running a Q45 Northbridge
(which houses the memory controller), would
allow other choices for memory divider and could
run at a different speed as a result.

CT25664BA1067.M8FR

DDR3-1066 (PC3-8500) CL7 UDIMM 240 pin

First the chipset info. Now, what this means is, at the time
of release, the Q45 chipset supported 16GB max on DDR2 designs
and 8GB max on DDR3 designs. Intel errs on the conservative
side when it releases this info, which is a shame. It should
instead be "honest" that capabilities exist, and simply
say "we haven't tested the 16GB config yet". Which would
be fine by me and would reduce my apprehension level.

https://s7.postimg.org/3yuujdaor/chipset_info.gif

People are confused by this here.

https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/t/603198/dell-optiplex-780-dt-16gb-ram- issue-conflicting-information/

One of the links they reference, is this one. Page 9
says "Yes, you can have 4x4GB DDR3 on the 780". That means
Intel actually supported it, but Intel was not able
to test or say much else when Q45 was released. But,
the Dell info neglects to mention an important detail,
which is single-sided versus double-sided RAM. The Dell
info works when the DIMM is double-sided at the 4GB density
point. Probably at the point in time Dell released
this information, that's the only kind of DIMM available
for this purpose.

http://i.dell.com/sites/content/business/solutions/engineering-docs/en/Document s/optiplex-780-tech-guide.pdf

One of the links referenced from Bleepingcomputer, takes
you here. The people here don't necessarily know what
they're doing either. Except the guy here recommended
getting the RAM from Crucial. The difficult part, is
finding a picture of the Crucial product, to make sure it's
double sided.

http://en.community.dell.com/support-forums/desktop/f/3514/t/19460832

The Crucial DDR3L-1600 is double sided and has chips
on both sides. In the DDR3 generation, some sticks
came out (I own a bunch), where the 4GB DIMM is single
sided and the 8GB DIMM is double sided. Those are 4Gbit
per silicon die, whereas the value outside of the
Q45 spec is to use 2Gbit per silicon die. The reason
the Crucial is working, is the config is a lower
density than some others you could buy.

The industry no longer makes 2Gbit chips, and instead
the DDR3 market is flooded with 4Gbit chips. That means
there will be a *lot* of single-sided 4GB DIMM products
attempting to trick you into purchase.

So while the GSkill are cute, with their heatspreader
and all, they might not work on the Optiplex 780.
Whereas the Crucial ones might. It's too bad we cannot
see the other side of these in the following advert,
to verify they're double sided (and hence, "low density")
in the picture. If only Crucial would include pictures
of both sides for our convenience.

But these are the ones to buy. Two sets if you want 16GB DDR3
on Optiplex 780.

**************************************************************
*
* $76 a set, buy two sets for four sticks. Your price in USD
* may differ, as some web pages are location-sensitive.
*
* http://www.crucial.com/usa/en/optiplex-780-mini-tower/CT7339272
*
**************************************************************

I tried Kingston.com and they don't list any entry for
the Optiplex 780. I looked at datasheets for three of their
ValueRAM products, and they're single sided. So Kingston
didn't put these in their list for the 780, even though
they would fit in the DIMM socket and all. Kingston makes
the shopping process easier, by providing this info, but
then again, Kingston doesn't have any lower density ones
for sale. These Kingston products would be based on
the (readily available) 4Gbit silicon dies.

(Non-candidates, do not use) https://www.kingston.com/dataSheets/KVR13N9S8K2_8.pdf https://www.kingston.com/dataSheets/KVR16LN11_4.pdf https://www.kingston.com/dataSheets/KVR16N11S6_2.pdf

So what happens when you plug in the Crucial ?

Crucial spec DDR3L-1600 CAS11 1.35V

Opti 780 DDR3-1066 CAS7 or CAS8 depending 1.5V

The memory will run at the chipset limit, which is 1066.
The BIOS gets to compute the CAS, and the value is 7.32.
If I had the SPD table for the RAM, I would be better
able to decide whether the actual allowed value is
rounded to 7 or to 8. Your current memory is CAS7
for comparison. The new memory could be CAS7 (faster)
or CAS8 (slower) when it gears down to the lower
clock speed of 1066.

And yes, when the memory arrives, you test it.

Procedure:

1) Shut down machine. Unplug. Use antistatic strap which
is clipped to bare metal on the computer chassis. I use
an I/O screw for my antistatic strap.

2) Remove old RAM. Store in antistatic bag. Insert new
RAM, making sure it "clicks" and is fully seated. Check
that the gold contacts are "hidden" by the socket, using
a flashlight.

3) Plug in computer. Switch on. If the POST screen is
visible, it'll report 16GB. If the wrong density of
RAM is used (GSkill sticks), it would only show 8GB.
Half the memory is detected if you use a high density stick.

4) *Only* boot the machine with the memtest CD at first.
*Don't* boot to Windows first thing. You want to make sure
the RAM passes memtest before you think of booting Windows.

Note that, even when a computer passes memtest, the RAM can
still be bad. I had one poster, who got a pass on memtest,
but Windows was corrupted on boot. So it does happen.

I normally run Prime95 from a Linux LiveCD as my second test
case after memtest, but I don't expect you to want to do
something like that. Maybe some day, someone will figure out
a way to package both tests into the same CD. But that
possibility isn't here today to the best of my knowledge.

HTH,
Paul
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Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
From: Mark Twain <magineer02@yahoo.com>
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Xref: feeder.eternal-september.org microsoft.public.windowsxp.general:134732

All this computer spec's etc. stuff I'm getting from you and
reading and trying to keep up. Some of it I understand but
others I need to re-read ,........this is not my forte.

this didn't open ,.. http://www.intel.com/Assets/PDF/prodbrief/320665.pdf

It sounds as if the 16GB of DDR2 is faster than 8GB of DDR3
but what is the best option for me? I already have 4GB of DDR3,.
could I have say 6GB? or do they have to be paired ? If so, then
that would be a good compromise in increasing RAMM and also
taking into account the heat factor. What do you think? If 6 isn't
possible then stay with 4GB or add 4GB giving me eight? Which
would you choose?


http://www.crucial.com/ProductDisplay?urlRequestType=Base&catalogId=10151&categ oryId=&productId=811501&urlLangId=-1&langId=-1&top_category=&parent_category_rn =&storeId=10151

http://www.crucial.com/ProductDisplay?urlRequestType=Base&catalogId=10151&categ oryId=&productId=11601&urlLangId=-1&langId=-1&top_category=&parent_category_rn= &storeId=10151


From what you say my computer isn't even using 1GB of 2GB
and it has 4GB. So why would others want to add 16GB then? Is
it for gaming? What could possibly use that much RAMM ? I do
use and have allot of photo's etc.. so maybe it helps in that
respect? I agree FF is a hog,.. maybe I should return to Explorer?

Hmmmm so they did get it to work with 16GB using Crucial

Understood about testing new memory .

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From: Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Subject: Re: Dell 780 Problem:
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2017 04:17:19 -0500
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Mark Twain wrote:

All this computer spec's etc. stuff I'm getting from you and
reading and trying to keep up. Some of it I understand but
others I need to re-read ,........this is not my forte.

this didn't open ,.. http://www.intel.com/Assets/PDF/prodbrief/320665.pdf

It sounds as if the 16GB of DDR2 is faster than 8GB of DDR3
but what is the best option for me? I already have 4GB of DDR3,.
could I have say 6GB? or do they have to be paired ? If so, then
that would be a good compromise in increasing RAMM and also
taking into account the heat factor. What do you think? If 6 isn't
possible then stay with 4GB or add 4GB giving me eight? Which
would you choose?

http://www.crucial.com/ProductDisplay?urlRequestType=Base&catalogId=10151&categ oryId=&productId=811501&urlLangId=-1&langId=-1&top_category=&parent_category_rn =&storeId=10151


http://www.crucial.com/ProductDisplay?urlRequestType=Base&catalogId=10151&categ oryId=&productId=11601&urlLangId=-1&langId=-1&top_category=&parent_category_rn= &storeId=10151

From what you say my computer isn't even using 1GB of 2GB
and it has 4GB. So why would others want to add 16GB then? Is
it for gaming? What could possibly use that much RAMM ? I do
use and have allot of photo's etc.. so maybe it helps in that
respect? I agree FF is a hog,.. maybe I should return to Explorer?

Hmmmm so they did get it to work with 16GB using Crucial

Understood about testing new memory .

Your first document, why are you looking for that one ?

That's a product brief for the Q45 chipset of the 780.

*******

Well, you asked for the "maximum upgrade" possible, and
as far as I can tell, that is 4x4GB of DDR3 on the Optiplex 780.

I didn't get a status back on your findings for your 2x2GB
existing DIMMs on the 780. You claimed they were both working,
and with both of them plugged in, you were going to run a memtest.

Only at the moment, your memtest CD isn't working.

Which is possibly a boot order thing, to be corrected
in the BIOS setup screen.

So, how is it going ? Is your existing test work complete ?

Paul
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