Hi Mike,

Just in case You haven't heard, it's been all over the news today. An artificial Pancreas is in the works and supposedly it will be available to the public in 4 years. Seems awful fast, but who am I to complain if it works?

Just noticed this message.. that would be incredible for people, wouldn't it.. I'm going to tell my Mom.. she's diabetic (I'm not) and I doubt she keeps up with news like this :)

Take care,
Janis

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*** Quoting Janis Kracht from a message to Mike Roberts ***

Hi Janis

Just in case You haven't heard, it's been all over the news today. An artificial Pancreas is in the works and supposedly it will be available to the public in 4 years. Seems awful fast, but who am I to complain if it works?

Just noticed this message.. that would be incredible for people,
wouldn't it.. I'm going to tell my Mom.. she's diabetic (I'm not) and
I doubt she keeps up withnews like this :)

Wouldn't this be Blessing? I was kind of surprised that one was so close to being marketable. Last good thing I heard of was the inhalable insulin,
rather than the shots. But this would be something. I would think it would also be an alternative for those with pancreatic cancer, which is so very lethal. I dunno, but it is good news, I hope things move right along with it.

BTW, I read Your post in another area about Ron. Thoughts and prayers are
with You guys.

Take care
Mike

... I've got a hunch! - Quasimodo

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Hello, Mike.

Sunday January 17 2010 at 16:57, you wrote to Janis Kracht:

Wouldn't this be Blessing? I was kind of surprised that one was so
close to being marketable. Last good thing I heard of was the
inhalable insulin, rather than the shots. But this would be something.
I would think it would also be an alternative for those with
pancreatic cancer, which is so very lethal. I dunno, but it is good
news, I hope things move right along with it.

Unfortunately, it'd be useless with Type 2 diabetics since that's "insulin resistance", not "complete lack of insulin" as in Type 1.

It'd be a godsend for people I know who are Type 1 diabetics where the pancreas
is completely inactive.

Later,
Sean

//sean@nsbbs.info | http://nsbbs.info | ICQ: 19965647

... He who dies with the most TAGLINES wins!
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While this development -- should they eventually be successful --
sounds promising, I must admit that depending 24/7 on a
machine/computer to regulate a person's blood glucose level, makes
me feel a bit uncomfortable.

what's the difference between this new machine and those that heart patients wear that monitor and issue shocks to their heart any time it determines there's irregular heartbeats? those have been in use for quite a few years now... no, i'm not talking about the heart pumps or replacement hearts but those devices that microwave ovens always warn heart folk to stay away from because it may induce problems with their embedded machine...

now, back to the pancreatic device... where the heck was this info during the time that my mother had a cancerous growth crushing her ducts between her pancrease and her liver? she barely made it the year the docs gave her and this
after 3 months of no (repeat *NO*) cancerous cell counts in her blood tests but
when it came back, it came back in 3's and totally took her from us... that was
only a few months ago :( :? :? :?

)\/(ark


* Origin: (1:3634/12)

Janis Kracht wrote in a message to Jeff Snyder:

We're a bit offtopic here, we should end this discussion...

Way off topic would be a better description....and yes, consider
that the health care debate thread is closed.

i missed that and am about 10 or 12 days late, i think... oh well :?

)\/(ark


* Origin: (1:3634/12)

On 01/19/10, Jeff Snyder quoted Janis Kracht: Artificial pancreas.

Just noticed this message.. that would be incredible for people, wouldn't it.. I'm going to tell my Mom.. she's diabetic (I'm not) and I doubt she keeps up with news like this :)

Hello Janis. I am going to have look into this. My daughter has been a Type 1 diabetic since 2001. I am curious as to what they mean by the term "artificial pancreas". Are they referring to an artificial organ that is created from a person's own body tissue/cells? That would be the only sure way to avoid organ rejection. I would also be concerned about any moral/ethical issues which may be associated with these developments.

Of course, we also need to keep things in perspective, and remember that men
of science just love to make boasts about what they are going to do, and when they are going to do it. More often than not, their time tables are way off.

Sadly, even if they do somehow manage to perfect this technology within four years, and assuming that there are no moral issues to contend with, the truth is that such an operation will be so expensive, that it will probably only be available to the rich and the affluent...but isn't that the way that things have always been? Money talks...even in hospitals.


Jeff Snyder, SysOp - Armageddon BBS Visit us at endtimeprophecy.org port 23 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Your Download Center 4 Mac BBS Software & Christian Files. We Use Hermes II


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On 01/19/10, Jeff Snyder quoted Janis Kracht: Artificial pancreas.

Just noticed this message.. that would be incredible for people, wouldn't it.. I'm going to tell my Mom.. she's diabetic (I'm not) and I doubt she keeps up with news like this :)

Hello Janis. I am going to have look into this. My daughter has been a Type 1 diabetic since 2001. I am curious as to what they mean by the term "artificial pancreas". Are they referring to an artificial organ that is created from a person's own body tissue/cells? That would be the only sure way to avoid organ rejection. I would also be concerned about any moral/ethical issues which may be associated with these developments.

Of course, we also need to keep things in perspective, and remember that men
of science just love to make boasts about what they are going to do, and when they are going to do it. More often than not, their time tables are way off.

Sadly, even if they do somehow manage to perfect this technology within four years, and assuming that there are no moral issues to contend with, the truth is that such an operation will be so expensive, that it will probably only be available to the rich and the affluent...but isn't that the way that things have always been? Money talks...even in hospitals.


Jeff Snyder, SysOp - Armageddon BBS Visit us at endtimeprophecy.org port 23 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Your Download Center 4 Mac BBS Software & Christian Files. We Use Hermes II


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Hi Mike,

Just in case You haven't heard, it's been all over the news today. An
artificial Pancreas is in the works and supposedly it will be available to >> the public in 4 years. Seems awful fast, but who am I to complain if it
works?

Just noticed this message.. that would be incredible for people,
wouldn't it.. I'm going to tell my Mom.. she's diabetic (I'm not) and
I doubt she keeps up withnews like this :)

Wouldn't this be Blessing? I was kind of surprised that one was so close to being marketable. Last good thing I heard of was the inhalable insulin, rather than the shots. But this would be something. I would think it would also be an alternative for those with pancreatic cancer, which is so very lethal. I dunno, but it is good news, I hope things move right along with it.

Sounds like it.. it's unfortunate that as Sean mentions, this will be of no help to Type II diabetics though.. at least it seems from the little I've read.
But what a revolutionary idea for Type I.. A friend of mine had a son who died with Type 1 and as you can imagine the family was devastated.

BTW, I read Your post in another area about Ron. Thoughts and prayers are with You guys.

Thanks a great deal Mike, much appreciated. He's doing ok.. very tired - but at least he knows why now, so that's something..His vision is more affected though so we're hoping medication will help that.. still waiting to see the neurologist (ain't that always the way :( )

Take care,
Janis

--- BBBS/LiI v4.01 Flag
* Origin: Prism bbs (1:261/38)

Hello Jeff,

Just noticed this message.. that would be incredible for people, wouldn't
it.. I'm going to tell my Mom.. she's diabetic (I'm not) and I doubt she
keeps up with news like this :)

Hello Janis. I am going to have look into this. My daughter has been a Type 1
diabetic since 2001. I am curious as to what they mean by the term "artificial
pancreas". Are they referring to an artificial organ that is created from a

No, that would certainly be beyond what their talking about..

person's own body tissue/cells? That would be the only sure way to avoid organ
rejection. I would also be concerned about any moral/ethical issues which may be associated with these developments.

It's a mechanical replacement so to speak.. the "device" as they called it will
"combine existing pump therapy and continuous glucose monitoring (CGM) technology with sophisticated computer algorithms to help prevent dangerous, potentially life-threatening low blood sugar levels, as well as to help prevent
complication-inducing high blood sugar levels."

http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyle/content/healthday/634962.html?chan=rss_to pEmailedStories_ssi_5

In other words, this will not totally do all the tasks of a real human pancreas. People "will still need to input the amount of carbohydrates they're
eating so the insulin pump knows how much insulin is needed, and manual blood sugar checks will still be necessary to confirm the CGM readings".

So it's taking some of the scare out of things for people but surely isn't a cure, and they don't present the device as that. More they are looking at this
device to ease the strain of the situation for people 'while they wait for a cure'. At least that what it seems to me.

Of course, we also need to keep things in perspective, and remember that men of science just love to make boasts about what they are going to do, and when they are going to do it. More often than not, their time tables are way off.

Yes, that's often true, sadly enough.

Sadly, even if they do somehow manage to perfect this technology within four years, and assuming that there are no moral issues to contend with, the truth is that such an operation will be so expensive, that it will probably only be available to the rich and the affluent...but isn't that the way that things have always been? Money talks...even in hospitals.

I sure know that's generally true :( But I think this device will be approved by the medical community as soon as it's feasible, and then covered by insurance companies. If someone like my daughter, who has no insurance needed it, then forget it.. I'm sure it wouldn't be affordable unless this country gets some kind of clinics set up for people :(

Hope you had a great Christmas and New Year, Jeff :)

Take care,
Janis

--- BBBS/LiI v4.01 Flag
* Origin: Prism bbs (1:261/38)

On 01/19/10, Jeff Snyder quoted Janis Kracht: Re: Artificial pancreas.

I sure know that's generally true :( But I think this device will be approved by the medical community as soon as it's feasible, and then covered by insurance companies. If someone like my daughter, who has no insurance needed it, then forget it.. I'm sure it wouldn't be affordable unless this country gets some kind of clinics set up for people :(

Boy, could I rant about that one! Until last year when my daughter began working, we were spending, on average, about $350/mo. for her diabetic needs. However, her employer offered health insurance, and her monthly premium is
so low compared to what we would normally spend, that it made perfect sense
for her to accept the plan. We save several hundred dollars a month now.

But concerning health care systems, let me just say this: It is a shame and
an embarrassment that the U.S.A. -- which claims to be the richest, and the most powerful nation on Earth -- has such an ineffective, malfunctioning
health care system. The U.S. Government spends billions a year on its wars,
and on propping up friendly dictatorships and other governments, while it ignores the needs of its own people.

The health care systems of Canada, Britain, France, and even Cuba, may not
be perfect, but they are miles ahead of what the U.S.A. has to offer in some regards. I imagine that you've probably seen Michael Moore's "Sicko". While
he obviously bends the facts to support his particular views -- as he does
in all of his films -- nevertheless, there is enough truth in the documentary to expose the weaknesses of the American health care system. If the American Congress ever does come to an agreement on a Universal Health Care system, I wonder what it will really look like, and how effective it will really be,
once we sweep away the legal smoke screens, and all of the pretty words on paper. If it is anything like the current Medicaid and MIP programs, we are
in trouble.


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Well, I read the news article in question, and have a few additional
comments to make.

While this development -- should they eventually be successful -- sounds promising, I must admit that depending 24/7 on a machine/computer to
regulate a person's blood glucose level, makes me feel a bit uncomfortable.

Computers -- no matter the size, and no matter how advanced they may be --
are not perfect. They do have glitches and can malfunction. What if this
device -- if it is eventually developed -- makes a miscalculation, and
injects too much, or too little, insulin into a person's bloodstream?

Diabetics often make the same mistake with their injections, because as this article states, determining exactly how much insulin to take throughout the
day is indeed rather tricky business; but at least they are in control of
the situation. I just don't know about trusting a machine -- no matter how complicated and advanced it may be -- to do this for them.

Of course, I am not a diabetic, and I don't have to be bothered with
performing multiple blood tests each day, or taking several injections each day. In fact, I absolutely hate needles! On the other hand, my daughter is a real trooper, and has been injecting herself since the age of eleven,
because I just didn't have the heart to do it myself.



Jeff Snyder, SysOp - Armageddon BBS Visit us at endtimeprophecy.org port 23 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Your Download Center 4 Mac BBS Software & Christian Files. We Use Hermes II


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Since the Industrial Revolution, with each passing decade, man has become
more and more dependent upon his machines, and they are now an integral part
of our modern society which we cannot do without -- unless we are willing to experience some major inconveniences.

We depend on them heavily for travel, for communication, for manufacturing processes, for education, for entertainment, for national defense, for exploration, to better or to even extend human life, and the list goes on.

But all of this has come at a considerable price. Jobs which once provided
for millions or billions of families have been taken over by machines. The by-products of the machine age have now polluted our planet to a dangerous level. There are now so many machines, that people are killed by them on a regular basis. And then there is the collective noise which is created by machines.

No, I'm not a strict Luddite -- my gosh, I'm working on a computer -- but perhaps we need to ask ourselves when enough is enough. We already depend
upon machines -- and more specifically, computers -- in certain life and
death situations. For example, on-board computers run a number of our commercial transportation systems, such as airplanes. Thankfully, in a situation such as that, a pilot can still take manual control of the craft
if it becomes necessary.

But with something like an experimental artificial pancreatic device, the situation is not exactly the same. If such a device were to miscalculate and release too much insulin into a diabetic's bloodstream, by the time someone notices it, it might be too late. I know for a fact from countless incidents with my own daughter, that a diabetic can be normal one minute, and within a matter of only twenty minutes, find themselves in very serious trouble -- totally incoherent, in a stupor, suffering a seizure, in a coma, or even
dead. Similar dire consequences could result if the device were to not give
the diabetic a sufficient amount of insulin as well.

So the question is, do we really want to go this far with our machines? Do
we really want to place this much trust in them? When a diabetic is in
serious trouble, due to being incoherent, in a stupor or suffering from a seizure, quite often they cannot cry out for help. I know this first hand,
and it isn't a situation that a caregiver -- such as a parent or spouse -- easily forgets. There have been a number of times where I have brought back
my daughter from the brink.

I am not trying to decide for anyone. In fact, I can't even decide for my
own daughter, because she is now a young adult. All I am saying is that we
all need to carefully consider the consequences when we choose to allow our machines to make life and death decisions for us.



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To balance out my previous comments, let me just conclude my remarks by
saying this: If I were a diabetic, perhaps I would feel differently about
this development, and it would give me some degree of hope. Let's face it;
it is easy for most of us to say something when we are not in a particular situation. Experiencing it ourselves sometimes changes our viewpoint, and allows us to see things in a different light.



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*** Quoting mark lewis from a message to Jeff Snyder ***

what's the difference between this new machine and those that heart patients wear that monitor and issue shocks to their heart any time
it determines there's irregular heartbeats? those have been in use

Hi Mark..

I am not sure of the difference, but I do know the pacemaker sure does help. My Father would have seizures due to irregular heart beat, and the heart stopping, and it was not pretty. The pacemaker is doing fine and takes pretty good care of him. No episodes since putting it in a couple of years ago. Used to have to go to dr. for testing it. Now they even do that over the phone.

now, back to the pancreatic device... where the heck was this info
during the time that my mother had a cancerous growth crushing her
ducts between her pancrease and her liver? she barely made it the

Ohh so sorry to hear about Your Mother.. I am not sure the device would have been ready as it is still off in the distance for use. But it may have been
an option in the testing stages. I dunno.. Sad, that more things could not become more marketable sooner. Though I do understand the testing stage. I know the Doc put me on something for diabetes, I forget, my friends and
family used to call it snake spit. 8) but that stuff made me sick, now I see they are thinking of or already have taken it off the market. It was poison venom from the Gila Monster, I just can't think of the name off hand.

year the docs gave her and this after 3 months of no (repeat *NO*) cancerous cell counts in her blood tests but when it came back, it
came back in 3's and totally took her from us... that was only a few

This is what scares me.. My Brother has actually been told he has pancreatic Cancer. The docs just say they can't pinpoint it. Being that it is so deadly, My Brother does not believe it as he is still alive after 5 years. Only thing he can manage to keep down, in small doses is ensure. The docs just can't
seem to find it, but they say they know he has it. I dunno, I just don't
know! Again, so sorry to hear about Your Mom.

Take care,
Mike

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Hi Jeff,

[...]

covered by insurance companies. If someone like my daughter, who has no
insurance needed it, then forget it.. I'm sure it wouldn't be affordable
unless this country gets some kind of clinics set up for people :(

Boy, could I rant about that one! Until last year when my daughter began working, we were spending, on average, about $350/mo. for her diabetic needs. However, her employer offered health insurance, and her monthly premium is
so low compared to what we would normally spend, that it made perfect sense for her to accept the plan. We save several hundred dollars a month now.

Of course, that makes sense. The difference in price even at the pharmacy if you don't have insurance is more than notable. In other words, the pharmacy charges more to patients without insurance than it does to those who do. It can be a difference of a few hundred dollars for some prescriptions.. I'm sure it's the same for any hospital procedure as well. We just went through that with my son.

But concerning health care systems, let me just say this: It is a shame and an embarrassment that the U.S.A. -- which claims to be the richest, and the most powerful nation on Earth -- has such an ineffective, malfunctioning health care system. The U.S. Government spends billions a year on its wars, and on propping up friendly dictatorships and other governments, while it ignores the needs of its own people.

I'd like to hit those in the House and Senate on the head with a 'wake up' ruler like the Nuns did in catholic school when I was a kid <grin> FWAP! Wake
up!! :)

The health care systems of Canada, Britain, France, and even Cuba, may not
be perfect, but they are miles ahead of what the U.S.A. has to offer in some regards.

I know a few people who came here to the US for health care because they had problems with Canadian health care, but people have to understand that provinces in Canada may each have their own 'flavor' of health care.. in other words, they are not all the same.. my brother and his wife who live in Vancouver BC wouldn't switch their health care for anything <g>.

I imagine that you've probably seen Michael Moore's "Sicko". While

Yes, I did. Good expose film I thought.

We're a bit offtopic here, we should end this discussion... I think we should create a new echo.. "Please_Insure_US" <bg> no pun intended :)

Take care,
Janis

--- BBBS/LiI v4.01 Flag
* Origin: Prism bbs (1:261/38)

Hi Jeff,

If I were a diabetic, perhaps I would feel differently about
this development, and it would give me some degree of hope.

Sure... Look at all the people who survive today because they have a pacemaker!! Ron's Aunt is over 87 years old now.. she started fainting and that device is what is keeping her safe and going.

Take care,
Janis

--- BBBS/LiI v4.01 Flag
* Origin: Prism bbs (1:261/38)

But concerning health care systems, let me just say this: It is a shame and an embarrassment that the U.S.A. -- which claims to be the richest, and the most powerful nation on Earth -- has such an ineffective, malfunctioning health care system. The U.S. Government spends billions a year on its wars, and on propping up friendly dictatorships and other governments, while it ignores the needs of its own people.

I agree. I'm also a little of a rant here. Since the universal health care
idea came out, I've had heavy fire in some places because I earned Tricare Prime and it's rates. This it seems to some is 'unfair' ever after 26 years service and that due to my service connected disabilities, that I am 'uninsurable' (and definately not covered for pre-existing) for myself and family.

In the meantime, even *with* Tricare I am out about 100$ a month. 30$ of
that this month are directly attributable injury to wartime action. The rest are largely due to things on going 'pre-existing' due to our age which no one else *will* cover.

So, at 1200$ a year for dual service retirees, it's a cost we can work with. We have no choice afterall as no one else will touch us. I checked. Closest
we got was 3,500 a month and had a cap of (outragious) less than that a year for each of us.

*sigh* rant off.
xxcarol
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Well...
Just in case You haven't heard, it's been all over the news today. An artificial Pancreas is in the works and supposedly it will be available to
the public in 4 years. Seems awful fast, but who am I to complain if it
works?

Have a good One!
Mike

... Worst-case scenario. * U may have to BUY it.

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Janis Kracht wrote in a message to Jeff Snyder:

We're a bit offtopic here, we should end this discussion...

Way off topic would be a better description....and yes, consider that the health care debate thread is closed.


cya,
thom
http://www.echolist.net/
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