• obamas gun fight

    From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to alexander koryagin on Sun Jan 24 19:07:21 2016
    Hello Alexander,

    American citizens the right to keep and bear arms was to keep
    an armed citizenry able to resist and overthrow a tyrannical
    government.
    Small arms is useless for that purpose.
    What makes you think all we've got is `small arms'?
    If the army use tanks, bombers, satellite, drones, spying
    equipment where can buy it? If you catch a tank it will be
    destroyed by a bomber withing minutes.

    Tanks and bombers are pretty much useless in an urban environment -
    unless the government wants to alienate the rest of the people.
    They're pretty much useless in jungles and forests, too. We should
    have learned that in Vietnam and you should have learn ed it in
    Afghanistan.

    It is not correct. The Afghan and Vietnam rebel success has some sense only when they receive multi-billion military help and other high-tech equipment for fighting planes, tanks etc. The success of Taliban
    fighters now is due to they have in their hands "help" originated both from the USA and the USSR. ;)

    It is all blowback. In regards to Afghanistan, the people in
    that area of the world have not changed much, if at all, in
    centuries. Rudyard Kipling wrote about them, his description
    just as relevant today as in his own time.

    Vietnam (Indochina) cannot be viewed in the same light as
    Afghanistan, as it was more of a real country with a people
    with shared values.

    The one common element between Afghanistan and Vietnam is
    the people of those places are still there, whereas the invading
    armies have all gone home.

    In Afghanistan, the people called the invaders "red monkeys".
    In Vietnam, the people called the invaders "white monkeys".
    But other than that, everything was the same.

    Small arms, however, are very useful in such an environment. So are
    knives and garrots.

    Garrot? Is it an arm, too?

    A type of wire, used to quickly (and permanently) disable someone.

    <skipped>
    Who are not allowed? Is there a certain database of those who
    are not allowed?
    Yes. Convicted felons, some misdemeanor convictions, and those
    who have been in mental institutions are usually caught in a
    background check for a firearm purchase.
    If a person hasn't been in a mental hospital during his life it
    doesn't mean he is healthy mentally. That is the way how nutcases
    acquire submachine guns.

    Submachine guns and "assault rifles" are just bullet hoses. They
    are notoriously inaccurate. An experienced shooter can do far more
    damage - from a much greater distance - with a scoped big game
    rifle, and have little "collateral damage."

    But submachine guns are perfect weapon for mass murders.

    Most mass murderers who choose to use submachine guns also
    carry other weapons as well. They want something that works.
    Not something that will jam. And they also want something
    that can be used with some degree of accuracy. Besides, not
    many mass murderers can afford the high cost of submachine
    guns, much less the ammo ...

    If the Americans buy such things it means that the criminal situation is similar to Intifada in Israel. ;)

    Schoolkids armed with rocks, showing off their pitching skills
    to major league baseball scouts. It is their way out of poverty,
    unnerstan'?

    The next step, I suppose, will be submachine guns installed on the balconies.

    No need. They are taking lessons from Chuck Norris in Texas on
    how to become Palestinian Rangers.

    <skipped>
    But anyway, allowing school teachers to have guns is a bad
    idea. ;=)

    A century and a half ago in this country it was quite common for
    students - ages 10 to 13 - in rural schools to carry pistols to and
    from school. Yet there was none of the mayhem then that there is
    now

    Well, if there were some wolves around. Otherwise the school teachers should have been unhappy. ;)

    Several states in the US allow college students to carry guns,
    including concealed. You know what that means? Every student
    is guaranteed to get straignt A's. No way a professor is even
    going to think about flunking a student packing heat. No way.

    --Lee

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    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5020/2140.2 to Tim Richardson on Mon Jan 25 09:42:23 2016
    Hi, Tim Richardson!
    I read your message from 20.01.2016 05:59

    ak>> <skipped>
    TR>>> If you are a foreigner and live in a foreign country, please stay
    TR>>> there and continue to be `controlled' by whatever dictator who
    TR>>> rules you. We don't need you here. We already have enough leftist
    TR>>> democrats who want to disarm the general public, control us in
    TR>>> every aspect of our lives, and micromanage our existence. We
    TR>>> don't need another one.
    ak>> Of course it is up to you to decide. I mean up to Americans. But
    ak>> if the majority wants to introduce strict arm control? Does the
    ak>> voice of the majority means anything in your country?

    TR> Firstly, there would have to be a process gone through to change
    TR> the Constitution. Far too many people would both strongly oppose
    TR> any change to the Second amendment or any attempt to do so, and
    TR> secondly, it would take the 2\3'ds majority of all states to make
    TR> it happen. And in this country that's not going to happen.

    Well, for instance, the green light for gay marriages had been turned on without any referendum. Surely this question will not gain the 2/3
    approval if the referendum were held. It was a decision made by a very
    limited group of American people.

    TR> And secondly... no! The `majority' means very little in this
    TR> country.

    TR> For every referendum put on a ballot passed by `the majority'...
    TR> there is a leftist state or federal court that will strike down the
    TR> `majority's' decision.

    So the arm restriction is in the offing. ;=)

    Bye, Tim!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido7.debate 2016

    --- FIDOGATE 5.1.7ds
    * Origin: Pushkin's BBS (2:5020/2140.2)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5020/2140.2 to Lee Lofaso on Mon Jan 25 10:09:34 2016
    Hi, Lee Lofaso!
    I read your message from 24.01.2016 19:07

    <skipped>
    ak>> I don't doubt that the cops are equipped very well. But we talk
    ak>> about common people's "right to keep and bear arms... to keep an
    ak>> armed citizenry able to resist and overthrow a tyrannical
    ak>> government."

    LL> Thomas Jefferson wrote about Americans having a duty and an
    LL> obligation to overthrow a tyrannical government. Jefferson was the
    LL> main author of the Declaration of Independence, who later went on
    LL> to serve as President of the United States. As you know, Americans
    LL> staged a revolution against England. But Jefferson was writing
    LL> after those events, referring to what Americans should do in future
    LL> times.

    LL> Russians also staged a revolution. It is prophesied that another
    LL> Russian revolution will soon come to pass - Josef Kugelbeer - The
    LL> Seer of Vorarlberg (1922)

    -----Beginning of the citation-----
    LL> Overnight the revolution of the communists together with the
    LL> national socialists starts (Russia & Germany). There is a storm
    LL> over cloisters and clergymen (Muslim attacks on Christians). At
    LL> first humans do not want to believe it, so surprisingly it will
    LL> happen. Many will be imprisoned and executed. Everyone flees into
    LL> the mountains. The Pfaender (Mountain) is full of people.

    LL> Like a lightning from cheerful sky the revolution of Russia sweeps
    LL> through first to Germany, then to France, Italy and England. The
    LL> mischief will quite suddenly come from Russia. Everywhere tumults
    LL> and destruction. The Rhine areas are destroyed by airplanes and
    LL> invading armies... - =end=
    ----- The end of the citation -----

    Do you know, recently I invented the aphorism concerning any theories (scientific, historical it doesn't matter):

    ANY THEORY HAS A CORRECT ANSWER AT ITS EXIT.
    implication: THERE IS NO THEORY WITH INCORRECT ANSWER AT ITS EXIT.

    It means that any person who invents or supports a particular theory is
    sure it is correct. The problem is that there are many "correct"
    theories. ;=)

    LL> It might seem somewhat cryptic, but makes a bit of sense if Muslim
    LL> armies somehow gain power and influence in that region. Any
    LL> thoughts?

    For the crazy actions that Europe had done across the Arab world in
    recent years it should have unpleasant consequences. It is inevitable. I
    don't think they will be dramatic, but they will be unpleasant and
    expensive surely.

    Bye, Lee!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido7.debate 2016
    --- FIDOGATE 5.1.7ds
    * Origin: Pushkin's BBS (2:5020/2140.2)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5020/2140.2 to Lee Lofaso on Mon Jan 25 10:29:53 2016
    Hi, Lee Lofaso!
    I read your message from 24.01.2016 19:07

    <skipped>
    BA>>> Tanks and bombers are pretty much useless in an urban
    BA>>> environment - unless the government wants to alienate the rest of
    BA>>> the people. They're pretty much useless in jungles and forests,
    BA>>> too. We should have learned that in Vietnam and you should have
    BA>>> learn ed it in Afghanistan.
    ak>> It is not correct. The Afghan and Vietnam rebel success has some
    ak>> sense only when they receive multi-billion military help and other
    ak>> high-tech equipment for fighting planes, tanks etc. The success of
    ak>> Taliban fighters now is due to they have in their hands "help"
    ak>> originated both from the USA and the USSR. ;)

    LL> It is all blowback. In regards to Afghanistan, the people in that
    LL> area of the world have not changed much, if at all, in centuries.
    LL> Rudyard Kipling wrote about them, his description just as relevant
    LL> today as in his own time.

    Simply Afghanistan is a perfect place for a guerilla war. As well as
    Vietnam is. If some countries provide these people with a lot of weapon
    to defeat them impossible.

    LL> Vietnam (Indochina) cannot be viewed in the same light as
    LL> Afghanistan, as it was more of a real country with a people with
    LL> shared values.

    What do you mean? There were a many South Vietnamese who fought against
    North.

    LL> The one common element between Afghanistan and Vietnam is the
    LL> people of those places are still there, whereas the invading armies
    LL> have all gone home.

    LL> In Afghanistan, the people called the invaders "red monkeys". In
    LL> Vietnam, the people called the invaders "white monkeys". But other
    LL> than that, everything was the same.

    Red monkey? What monkeys are in Afghanistan now? ;-) As for "white
    monkeys" in Vietnam I have strong doubts: after all the Russians who
    fought in Vietnam were white. ;)

    <skipped>
    ak>>>> If a person hasn't been in a mental hospital during his life it
    ak>>>> doesn't mean he is healthy mentally. That is the way how
    ak>>>> nutcases acquire submachine guns.

    BA>>> Submachine guns and "assault rifles" are just bullet hoses. They
    BA>>> are notoriously inaccurate. An experienced shooter can do far
    BA>>> more damage - from a much greater distance - with a scoped big
    BA>>> game rifle, and have little "collateral damage."

    If you were right the soldiers would fight with simple rifles today, not
    with submachine guns. Rifles are more effective and accurate. ;-)

    ak>> But submachine guns are perfect weapon for mass murders.
    LL> Most mass murderers who choose to use submachine guns also carry
    LL> other weapons as well. They want something that works. Not
    LL> something that will jam. And they also want something that can be
    LL> used with some degree of accuracy. Besides, not many mass murderers
    LL> can afford the high cost of submachine guns, much less the ammo...

    They carry with them all the weapon they can find.

    ak>> If the Americans buy such things it means that the criminal
    ak>> situation is similar to Intifada in Israel. ;)

    LL> Schoolkids armed with rocks, showing off their pitching skills to
    LL> major league baseball scouts. It is their way out of poverty,
    LL> unnerstan'?

    The longer this situation will last the better players will appear. ;=|

    Bye, Lee!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido7.debate 2016

    --- FIDOGATE 5.1.7ds
    * Origin: Pushkin's BBS (2:5020/2140.2)
  • From Tim Richardson@1:275/93 to alexander koryagin on Mon Jan 25 18:54:33 2016
    Hi, Tim Richardson!
    I read your message from 20.01.2016 05:59

    ak>> Of course it is up to you to decide. I mean up to Americans. But
    ak>> if the majority wants to introduce strict arm control? Does the
    ak>> voice of the majority means anything in your country?

    TR> Firstly, there would have to be a process gone through to change
    TR> the Constitution. Far too many people would both strongly oppose
    TR> any change to the Second amendment or any attempt to do so, and
    TR> secondly, it would take the 2\3'ds majority of all states to make
    TR> it happen. And in this country that's not going to happen.

    Well, for instance, the green light for gay marriages had been turned on without any referendum.

    Unlike `state' referendums...federal politicians and governing bodies
    (House and Senate, not to mention all the federal `entities' who pretty
    well make their own `rules and regulations') do not dare allow `referendums'
    to appear on a federal ballot, or the issue of two same-sex sodomites would have been rejected long ago. As would any attempt to circumvent the Second Amendment. There would probably not even be as strong a control as there
    is right now.

    Surely this question will not gain the 2/3
    approval if the referendum were held. It was a decision made by a very limited group of American people.

    Which is probably why it won't come to that. Because those who are for
    stricter and stricter control know they would lose.
    TR> And secondly... no! The `majority' means very little in this
    TR> country.

    TR> For every referendum put on a ballot passed by `the majority'...
    TR> there is a leftist state or federal court that will strike down the
    TR> `majority's' decision.

    So the arm restriction is in the offing. ;=)

    Depends on a lot of things. First...they'd have to go door to door going through violent entry in which many of them would be injured or killed.

    And more and more high ranking law enforcement officials are coming out
    against it. Insisting people in their jurisdiction arm themselves.
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  • From BOB ACKLEY@1:123/140 to LEE LOFASO on Thu Jan 28 13:26:02 2016
    Schoolkids armed with rocks, showing off their pitching skills
    to major league baseball scouts. It is their way out of poverty,
    unnerstan'?

    Just in case anyone wondered - the US Army hand grenade of WWII and more
    recent vintage is approximately the shape and slightly larger than a
    baseball.
    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.0pr5
    * Origin: DocsPlace.org Fidonet Since 1991 | QWK VIA Web / Telne (1:123/140)