• Feed Cut Requests.

    From TIM RICHARDSON@1:123/140 to ALL on Sun Dec 13 14:00:00 2009
    On 12-12-09, BOB KLAHN said to BOB ACKLEY:


    IMO the Internet is not a valid source for anything.
    Anybody can put up any web site and post anything on it
    they want.


    BTW, the numbers I am using are *NOT* phony because they are
    from the web, but because they are cooked in the original. This
    is esp true of GW Bush's numbers. As I have pointed out
    repeatedly before.


    Where were all these know-it-alls when the piss-poor lending practices that ended up pretty well destroying the American economy, were first getting started? Like in the Carter administration.....with the congress fully controlled by the democrats?


    And got even riskier during the Clinton administration.....(again!) with the democrats in control of congress?


    G.W. Bush wasn't even on the political horizon when the groundwork was laid
    for the housing mortgage meltdown.


    The blame can be laid right at the feet of Chris Dodd......Barney Frank...et al.


    G.W. Bush warned congress on various occasions that the mortgage debacle was coming, but was ignored. Congress did nothing to prevent it, Bush couldn't do anytrhing without congress, and as a result the economy is in a mess it might never recover from.


    *Not* G.W. Bush's fault....but still these sanctimonious know-nothings come
    out of the woodwork and blame him.


    Problem being: from January 20th, 2009.......*Obama* has been calling the shots! All `bailouts'...stimulus money tossed out there, etc etc, is owned and operated by Hussein Obama!





    ---
    *Durango b301 #PE*
    * Origin: Doc's Place BBS Fido Since 1991 docsplace.tzo.com (1:123/140)
  • From JOHNJWILSON@1:123/140 to BOB KLAHN on Sun Dec 20 21:27:34 2009

    He even admitted that statistics
    he uses are phony - "but they're the only numbers we have."

    Not even the basis for a good guess, eh? I haven't been
    following: Bob, did you admit this?

    Admitted? Hell, I proclaimed it back in Dec 2007. Remember when
    the right wingers were saying "The fundamentals of the economy
    are sound"?

    I responded by showing how the unemployment stats were cooked,
    and pointed out that the economy sucked.

    Ah so.

    ---
    Appro of nothing at all




    (www.lhcportal.com)

    Fascinated me. (The Collider thingie...)


    * Origin: Doc's Place BBS Fido Since 1991 docsplace.tzo.com (1:123/140)
  • From Bob Klahn@1:124/311 to Mimi Gallandt on Mon Oct 26 11:31:00 2009

    ...

    Sadly Mr Hull died. :( I seem to remember that like a
    vulture Klahn snapped it up,

    Bad girl! Bad girl!

    Not only are you a moral coward, but you can't even get your
    facts straight. It ain't 'snapped up' when it's been long dead.

    BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

    ... If all one has is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail...
    * Silver Xpress V4.5/P [Reg]
    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.0pr5a
    * Origin: FidoTel & QWK on the Web! www.fidotel.com (1:124/311)
  • From JOHNJWILSON@1:123/140 to ED HULETT on Tue Nov 24 21:45:34 2009

    AFAIK the echo had been abandoned and the listing expired, so Klahn
    adopted
    it. He certainly isn't the only person that's done that sort of
    thing.

    Klahn grabbed it up precisely because he had been banned from it and
    wanted to
    retaliate against those he hates. He is eaten up with hatred.

    Ah, the Psychaitrist from his vast experience in cognitive analysis speaks!

    A while back I thought you were about 16...that is impossible now...
    but your ability to conclude before your brain starts working IS an
    interesting phenominon...the above example is close to being an all time winner. :-)
    Thanks for the smile :-)

    Standing by for a witty come-back...
    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.0pr5
    * Origin: Doc's Place BBS Fido Since 1991 docsplace.tzo.com (1:123/140)
  • From JOHNJWILSON@1:123/140 to BOB KLAHN on Tue Nov 24 22:06:50 2009
    I guess I just have to join the crowd gathered to not talk about Klahn...


    FIDO is dying and Klahn is not helping keep it alive.

    Yeah, Bob stop leaden it down with research and statistics...no
    right-winger wants THAT.


    Klahn and his type are the reason why!

    Oh Oh, I'm on the edge of being invited into the group of destroyers.
    Ah, the power!

    Notice how the invasion of the coffee klatch echo took place as
    I predicted? Notice how many who posted there left when the
    right wing lot joined?

    Notice how many never came back?

    You have personal knowledge that you have seen a great many
    msgs from me that did not contain personal attacks. You know
    from your own experience I have been very tolerant of those who
    abuse the rules, when they do decide to comply.

    And you know, from what you have seen, that Hulett posts
    overwhelmingly msgs with personal attacks.

    So, cut the BS. Try living with the truth.

    No no no no no no no no. Truth comes right in and hurts the revered
    and holy Off-Hand Opinion, the Pre-conceived conclusion, the Mental
    Superiority Over those Who Differ --
    Hallowed Tradition in these parts...

    You Catholics! Always trying to change things!

    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.0pr5
    * Origin: Doc's Place BBS Fido Since 1991 docsplace.tzo.com (1:123/140)
  • From JOHNJWILSON@1:123/140 to JOHN MASSEY on Tue Nov 24 22:15:52 2009
    Disagreement is a form of hate?

    Only to Democrats.
    I mean we all know any white, non-democrat that disagrees
    with the big "O" has to be because they hate blacks and
    not because they disagree with his take on issues

    Only to those who try to BS their way through it. I don't know
    anyone saying disagreement with the president is a sign of hate.

    Then you haven't watched much political coverage on TV.

    I watch a LOT of political coverage on TV and read a lot of political
    coverage. (I do not get Fox News here though...that must be where you get
    that.
    True? If not, where?

    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.0pr5
    * Origin: Doc's Place BBS Fido Since 1991 docsplace.tzo.com (1:123/140)
  • From Bob Klahn@1:124/311 to Tim Richardson on Tue Jan 12 12:30:00 2010

    ...

    election campaign. Frank co-authored the house version with
    republican Michael Oxley of Ohio. Frank did oppose amendments
    that he felt compromised it, but it did pass the house. Oxley
    said, when Bush torpedoed it in the Senate, Bush gave us a one
    fingered salute.

    ...

    From Frank's press release:

    The truth is when President Bush took office, and the
    Republicans controlled both houses of Congress, he did not
    make any progress on comprehensive legislation to reform
    the regulation of the Government Sponsored Enterprises.

    It was not until 2005, when the House, on a bipartisan
    basis, and over the President's objections finally passed a
    reform bill. It died in the Senate in part because the
    White House's failure to make it a priority.

    Actually, the WH actively opposed it.

    ...

    Mr. Snow said that Congress should eliminate the power of
    the president to appoint directors to the companies, a sign
    that the administration is less concerned about the perks
    of patronage than it is about the potential political
    problems associated with any new difficulties arising at
    the companies.

    Who would appoint the directors? It sounds more like an attempt
    to cut them off altogether.

    ...

    As Frank mentions in his press release today, two years
    after it was first proposed, the House finally voted on a
    bill reforming the mortgage giants.

    Alas, the legislation was watered down to the point of
    being meaningless; that's why it passed the House with such
    wide margins (122 Democrats and 209 Republicans).

    But even then, and despite his high regard for
    bipartisanship now, Barney Frank wasn't among the yeas.

    Barney Frank co-authored it. He voted against it because of the
    amendments that watered it down so much.

    BTW, McCain signed on as co-sponsor 10 months after it came out
    of committee, at which time it was dead anyway.


    BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

    ... Remember, take an asprin *BEFORE* the novacain wears off.
    * Silver Xpress V4.5/P [Reg]
    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.0pr5a
    * Origin: FidoTel & QWK on the Web! www.fidotel.com (1:124/311)
  • From Bob Ackley@1:300/3 to JOHNJWILSON on Wed Nov 25 06:14:04 2009
    Replying to a message of JOHNJWILSON to BOB KLAHN:

    I guess I just have to join the crowd gathered to not talk about
    Klahn...

    FIDO is dying and Klahn is not helping keep it alive.

    Yeah, Bob stop leaden it down with research and statistics...no right-winger wants THAT.

    Internet research and phony statistics. He even admitted that statistics
    he uses are phony - "but they're the only numbers we have." Even so,
    they're still phony.

    IMO the Internet is not a valid source for anything. Anybody can put up any web site and post anything on it they want.

    --- FleetStreet 1.19+
    * Origin: Bob's Boneyard, Emerson, Iowa (1:300/3)
  • From Bob Klahn@1:124/311 to Tim Richardson on Thu Dec 17 00:37:00 2009

    IMO the Internet is not a valid source for anything.
    Anybody can put up any web site and post anything on it
    they want.

    BTW, the numbers I am using are *NOT* phony because they are
    from the web, but because they are cooked in the original. This
    is esp true of GW Bush's numbers. As I have pointed out
    repeatedly before.

    Where were all these know-it-alls when the piss-poor
    lending practices that ended up pretty well destroying the
    American economy, were first getting started? Like in the
    Carter administration.....with the congress fully
    controlled by the democrats?

    You are talking about deregulation, and some of us were opposing
    deregulation even back then. Deregulation was a conservative
    idea too many democrats bought into. Looks like we needed to
    head into a new depression for people to learn better. Well, we
    will see if they have learned.

    And got even riskier during the Clinton
    administration.....(again!) with the democrats in control
    of congress?

    The democrats were in control of congress exactly two years of
    Clinton's eight. And Clinton bought into the Bush/Republican
    fraud of NAFTA and GATT and the WTO.

    G.W. Bush wasn't even on the political horizon when the
    groundwork was laid for the housing mortgage meltdown.

    Yet he bought into it big time. He had 8 years in office, the
    first 6 he could have done a lot to stop it, instead he
    contributed to it.

    The blame can be laid right at the feet of Chris
    Dodd......Barney Frank...et al.

    And you bought into the big lie from the right. Barney Frank
    opposed the Bush "Ownership Society" with everyone owning a
    home. He supported, the Home Financing Reform act of 2005, the
    one McCain claimed co-sponsorship so proudly in the 2008
    election campaign. Frank co-authored the house version with
    republican Michael Oxley of Ohio. Frank did oppose amendments
    that he felt compromised it, but it did pass the house. Oxley
    said, when Bush torpedoed it in the Senate, Bush gave us a one
    fingered salute.

    G.W. Bush warned congress on various occasions that the
    mortgage debacle was coming, but was ignored. Congress did

    He did? When?

    nothing to prevent it, Bush couldn't do anytrhing without
    congress, and as a result the economy is in a mess it might
    never recover from.

    Now that you have to support. And Bush could do a lot, he had
    the power of the veto. The Bush administration killed the Home
    Fincancing Reform act of 2005, so just when did he warn congress
    about anything?

    *Not* G.W. Bush's fault....but still these sanctimonious
    know-nothings come out of the woodwork and blame him.

    *NOT* Barney Frank's fault... but still the sanctimonious
    know-nothings come out of the woodwork and blame him.

    Problem being: from January 20th, 2009.......*Obama* has
    been calling the shots! All `bailouts'...stimulus money
    tossed out there, etc etc, is owned and operated by Hussein
    Obama!

    The bank/investment firm bailout was Bush. The budget up till
    Sept 30th was Bush. The prejudice expressed in your
    characterization of Obama is yours.

    And most economists I read say the bailouts prevented a complete
    meltdown of the financial system. I do not believe Bush did it
    right, but possibly better than nothing. We will never know for
    sure, but that's how economics works. They don't call it the
    "Dismal Science" for nothing.






    ---
    *Durango b301 #PE*
    * Origin: Doc's Place BBS Fido Since 1991
    docsplace.tzo.com (1:123/140)

    BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

    ... Sarah Palin is a uniter - she's united 60-70% of Americans - against her.
    * Silver Xpress V4.5/P [Reg]
    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.0pr5a
    * Origin: FidoTel & QWK on the Web! www.fidotel.com (1:124/311)
  • From Mimi Gallandt@1:123/789 to Earl Croasmun on Thu Oct 22 11:47:31 2009
    Earl Croasmun -> Ross Cassell wrote:

    By the way, you made these comments about the "all-politics" echo. As I recall, it was created many years ago by John Hull and Stan Hardegree. Stan voluntarily relinquished his co-moderatorship and turned the echo
    over
    to John's sole control, just as Peter Bradie relinquished moderatorship of his echo a few years ago. Has John ever turned the echo over to a new moderator? Has he ever taken action to pull it off the backbone? Or is
    it
    still his?

    Sadly Mr Hull died. :( I seem to remember that like a vulture Klahn snapped it
    up,

    --- Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812)
    * Origin: Fidonet Via Newsreader - http://www.easternstar.info (1:123/789.0)
  • From Mimi Gallandt@1:123/789 to Ross Cassell on Thu Oct 22 11:52:31 2009
    Ross Cassell -> Ed Hulett wrote:
    Hello Ed!

    06 Oct 09 19:55, you wrote to Earl Croasmun:

    I unsubscribed from ALL-POLITICS because of Ross' request. I don't
    think Klahn's request is legitimate, but I respect Ross and don't want
    any problems to arise between him and Klahn on my part.

    Actually, Klahns request was as legitimate as any I have gotten for
    links and users, very polite and concise.

    As I said to Earl, its too late to question Klahns claim to the echo, we all conducted ourselves by defacto recognition and the prior moderator
    had every chance to prevent it or protest it.

    It is very difficult for dead people to protest things.

    --- Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812)
    * Origin: Fidonet Via Newsreader - http://www.easternstar.info (1:123/789.0)
  • From Mimi Gallandt@1:123/789 to Earl Croasmun on Thu Oct 22 12:00:10 2009
    Earl Croasmun -> Bob Ackley wrote:
    distance phone calls back when local BBSes were dying out and internet
    BBSes hadn't yet caught on. There is a string of people - including me
    - who
    would have dropped out of fidonet more than a decade ago if not for Bob's help. That is one of the reasons why, in spite of some of his post-retirement
    explosions and insult-fits and tirades, I find it impossible to dislike him or to be
    irritated by his behavior.

    That is true, I was one of the people he sent QWK packets.

    --- Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812)
    * Origin: Fidonet Via Newsreader - http://www.easternstar.info (1:123/789.0)
  • From Ross Cassell@1:123/456 to Mimi Gallandt on Thu Oct 22 17:46:44 2009
    Hello Mimi!

    22 Oct 09 11:52, you wrote to me:

    echo, we all conducted ourselves by defacto recognition and the
    prior moderator had every chance to prevent it or protest it.

    It is very difficult for dead people to protest things.

    Who said John Hull died, he is using my server to post messages,

    ==
    Ross
    Fidonet Feeds Or Fidonet In Your Newsreader: http://www.easternstar.info E-mail: ross(at)cassell(dot)us | Other Places: http://links.cassell.us
    Fidonet Netmail Routing Chart Z1 Only: http://netmail.fidonet4u.info
    ... Democrats Are Like A Farm Pond, The Scum Always Rises To The Top.
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20060121
    * Origin: The Eastern Star - Spartanburg, SC USA (1:123/456)
  • From Mimi Gallandt@1:123/789 to Ross Cassell on Thu Oct 22 20:05:18 2009
    Ross Cassell -> Mimi Gallandt wrote:
    Hello Mimi!

    22 Oct 09 11:52, you wrote to me:

    echo, we all conducted ourselves by defacto recognition and the
    prior moderator had every chance to prevent it or protest it.

    It is very difficult for dead people to protest things.

    Who said John Hull died, he is using my server to post messages,

    Yes, I realized later that it was Richard who died not John. My bad.

    --- Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812)
    * Origin: Fidonet Via Newsreader - http://www.easternstar.info (1:123/789.0)
  • From TIM RICHARDSON@1:123/140 to ALL on Thu Dec 17 10:25:00 2009
    On 12-17-09, BOB KLAHN said to TIM RICHARDSON:


    G.W. Bush warned congress on various occasions that the
    mortgage debacle was coming, but was ignored. Congress did


    He did? When?

    Democrats Were Wrong on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac - Michael Barone

    (usnews.com)



    Thursday, December 17, 2009Subscribe |Contact Us |Article IndexSearch U.S.
    News


    Seventeen.


    That's how many times, according to this White House statement (hat tip
    Gateway Pundit), that the Bush administration has called for tighter
    regulation of the government-sponsored enterprises (GSEs) Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Congress has cooperated only once. In spring 2007, as House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank likes to point out, the House did pass a bill in response.


    The Senate did not act until 2008; Senate Banking Committee Chairman Christopher Dodd spent most of 2007 camped out in Iowa running for president.

    The legislation passed by Congress in 2008 enabled Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson to put Fannie and Freddie into federal conservatorship this summer
    when they failed. But it didn't prevent them from spewing a huge amount of toxic waste, in the form of subprime and Alt-A mortgages, into our financial institutions from 2004 to 2007. As Stephen Spruiell points out in The Corner
    on National Review Online, Fannie and Freddie spewed out $1 trillion worth (face value) of subprime mortgages between 2005 and 2007. That's a whole lot
    of toxic waste. For more detail, consult the items referred to in my previous blogpost on this subject (most of the comments seem to have been disputes
    about the plot line of the movie It's a Wonderful Life, which I should think could be settled by consulting a reference work).



    Much if not all of that could have been prevented by a bill cosponsored by
    John McCain and supported by all the Republicans and opposed by all the Democrats in the Senate Banking Committee in 2005. That bill, which the Democrats stopped from passing, would have prohibited the GSEs from
    speculating on the mortgage-based securities they packaged. The GSEs' mission allegedly justifying their quasi-governmental status was to package or securitize such mortgages, but the lion's share of their profitsΓÇöwhich determined top executives' bonusesΓÇöcame from speculation.


    John McCain has shied away from making this an issue, for reasons my U.S. News colleague Jim Pethokoukis speculates on. This National Republican
    Congressional Committee Web ad makes the point McCain has been avoiding. Jim Geraghty of the Campaign Spot blog at National Review Online seems exasperated by the McCain campaign's failure to exploit this issue. Excerpts:


    Why can't John McCain and Sarah Palin make the points about how the crisis
    was built illustrated in the "Burning Down the House" (with the revised music) YouTube video? Could McCain please, please bring up some of this in Tuesday's debate?


    Don't the American people deserve to know that Democrat Barney Frank, then ranking member and now chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, said, "I want to roll the dice a little bit more in this situation towards subsidized housing"? Isn't the fact that the ranking Democrat in charge of oversight of Fannie Mae was in a sexual relationship with a high-ranking
    Fannie Mae executive a glaring conflict of interest? Isn't it worth noting
    that Democratic Rep. Maxine Waters insisted, "we do not have a crisis at Freddie Mac, and in particular at Fannie Mae, under the outstanding
    leadership of Mr. Frank Raines"? Shouldn't the American people know that Democratic Rep. Gregory Meeks insist that "there's been nothing that was indicated that's wrong with Fannie Mae"?


    If nothing else, shouldn't we salute Democratic Rep. Artur Davis for saying, "Like a lot of my Democratic colleagues I was too slow to appreciate the recklessness of Fannie and Freddie. I defended their efforts to encourage affordable homeownership when in retrospect I should have heeded the
    concerns raised by their regulator in 2004. Frankly, I wish my Democratic colleagues would admit when it comes to Fannie and Freddie, we were wrong."


    I talked with Artur Davis in the Speaker's Lobby Friday during the vote on the financial bailout/rescue package. He reiterated what he said here, and he also makes the fair point that Republicans made some mistakes too. As for the reference Geraghty makes to the fact that Barney Frank's partner Herb Moses worked at Fannie Mae, I think we should keep in mind the fact that Frank and Moses broke up in 1998 and that Moses quit working at Fannie Mae at about the same time. As far as I'm concerned, that's ancient history. And while in retrospect it's clear that Frank was wrong about the GSEs in 2003, he did work with the administration and pushed legislation through the House in 2007, so
    it seemed he was open to learning from experience.

    ---
    *Durango b301 #PE*
    * Origin: Doc's Place BBS Fido Since 1991 docsplace.tzo.com (1:123/140)
  • From TIM RICHARDSON@1:123/140 to ALL on Thu Dec 17 10:37:00 2009
    On 12-17-09, BOB KLAHN said to TIM RICHARDSON:



    The blame can be laid right at the feet of Chris
    Dodd......Barney Frank...et al.


    And you bought into the big lie from the right. Barney Frank
    opposed the Bush "Ownership Society" with everyone owning a
    home. He supported, the Home Financing Reform act of 2005, the
    one McCain claimed co-sponsorship so proudly in the 2008
    election campaign. Frank co-authored the house version with
    republican Michael Oxley of Ohio. Frank did oppose amendments
    that he felt compromised it, but it did pass the house. Oxley
    said, when Bush torpedoed it in the Senate, Bush gave us a one
    fingered salute.



    Barney Frank's Fannie and Freddie Muddle - Sam Dealey (usnews.com)


    Thursday, December 17, 2009 U.S. News



    Now that crisis management has taken root and Fannie and Freddie have been placed in conservatorship, a number of commentators have remarked that
    Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson's actions bear a striking resemblance to what his predecessor proposed five years ago. Whether the two mortgage giants deserve a future will be a pitched battle, but for now, Democratic Rep. Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the Financial Services Committee chairman, has issued
    a press release with a fanciful take on history.


    From Frank's press release:


    The truth is when President Bush took office, and the Republicans controlled both houses of Congress, he did not make any progress on comprehensive legislation to reform the regulation of the Government Sponsored Enterprises.


    It was not until 2005, when the House, on a bipartisan basis, and over the President's objections finally passed a reform bill. It died in the Senate
    in part because the White House's failure to make it a priority.


    In fact, here's a New York Times story from September 2003, clearly showing that the first substantive Fannie and Freddie reform from inside government came from the Bush administration. Spurred by worries that Fannie and Freddie were cooking their books and taking too many risks, Treasury Secretary John Snow proposed placing the companies under Treasury oversight with strict controls over risk and capital reserves. The NYT labeled the proposal "the
    most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis a decade ago" and noted:


    Mr. Snow said that Congress should eliminate the power of the president to appoint directors to the companies, a sign that the administration is less concerned about the perks of patronage than it is about the potential
    political problems associated with any new difficulties arising at the companies.


    So five years ago, there was one of those rare moments in Washington when the branches and personalities of government (in this case, the Bush administration) are less interested in protecting or expanding their turf
    than in fixing a looming catastrophe. What was Frank's response to the proposal?


    "These two entities (Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac) are not facing any kind of financial crisis," said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. "The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."


    As Frank mentions in his press release today, two years after it was first proposed, the House finally voted on a bill reforming the mortgage giants.


    Alas, the legislation was watered down to the point of being meaningless; that's why it passed the House with such wide margins (122 Democrats and 209 Republicans).


    But even then, and despite his high regard for bipartisanship now, Barney
    Frank wasn't among the yeas.

    ---
    *Durango b301 #PE*
    * Origin: Doc's Place BBS Fido Since 1991 docsplace.tzo.com (1:123/140)
  • From TIM RICHARDSON@1:123/140 to BOB KLAHN on Thu Dec 17 10:52:00 2009
    On 12-17-09, BOB KLAHN said to TIM RICHARDSON:


    G.W. Bush wasn't even on the political horizon when the
    groundwork was laid for the housing mortgage meltdown.

    Yet he bought into it big time. He had 8 years in office, the
    first 6 he could have done a lot to stop it, instead he
    contributed to it.

    Al Hubbard and Noam Neusner - Where Was Sen. Dodd? - washingtonpost.com


    By Al Hubbard and Noam Neusner


    Friday, September 12, 2008


    Taxpayers face a tab of as much as $200 billion for a government takeover of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the formerly semi-autonomous mortgage finance clearinghouses. And Sen. Christopher Dodd, the Democratic chairman of the Senate Banking Committee, has the gall to ask in a Bloomberg Television interview: "I have a lot of questions about where was the administration over the last eight years."


    We will save the senator some trouble. Here is what we saw firsthand at the White House from late 2002 through 2007: Starting in 2002, White House and Treasury Department economic policy staffers, with support from then-Chief of Staff Andy Card, began to press for meaningful reforms of Fannie, Freddie and other government-sponsored enterprises (GSEs).


    The crux of their concern was this: Investors believed that the GSEs were government-backed, so shouldn't the GSEs also be subject to meaningful government supervision?


    This was not the first time a White House had tried to confront this issue.


    During the Clinton years, Treasury Secretary Larry Summers and Treasury official Gary Gensler both spoke out on the issue of Fannie and Freddie's investment portfolios, which had already begun to resemble hedge funds with risky holdings.


    Nor were others silent: As chairman of the Federal Reserve, Alan Greenspan regularly warned about the risks posed by Fannie and Freddie's holdings.



    President Bush was receptive to reform. He withheld nominees for Fannie and Freddie's boards -- a presidential privilege. While it would have been
    valuable politically to use such positions to reward supporters, the president put good policy above good politics.


    In subsequent years, officials at Treasury and the Council of Economic
    Advisers (especially Chairmen Greg Mankiw and Harvey Rosen) pressed for the following:


    Requiring Fannie and Freddie to submit to regulations of the Securities and Exchange Commission; to adopt financial accounting standards; to follow bank standards for capital requirements; to shrink their portfolios of assets from risky levels; and empowering regulators such as the Office of Federal Housing Oversight to monitor the firms.


    The administration did not accept half-measures. In 2005, Republican Mike Oxley, then chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, brought up a reform bill (H.R. 1461), and Fannie and Freddie's lobbyists set out to weaken it. The bill was rendered so toothless that Card called Oxley the night before markup and promised to oppose it. Oxley pulled the bill instead.


    During this period, Sen. Richard Shelby led a small group of legislators favoring reform, including fellow Republican Sens. John Sununu, Chuck Hagel
    and Elizabeth Dole. Meanwhile, Dodd -- who along with Democratic Sens. John Kerry, Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton were the top four recipients of Fannie and Freddie campaign contributions from 1988 to 2008 -- actively opposed such measures and further weakened existing regulation.


    The president's budget proposals reflected the nature of the challenge. Note the following passage from the 2005 budget: Fannie, Freddie and other GSEs
    "are highly leveraged, holding much less capital in relation to their assets than similarly sized financial institutions. . . . A misjudgment or unexpected economic event could quickly deplete this capital, potentially making it difficult for a GSE to meet its debt obligations. Given the very large size of each enterprise, even a small mistake by a GSE could have consequences throughout the economy."


    That passage was published in February 2004. Dodd can find it on Page 82 of
    the budget's Analytical Perspectives.


    The administration not only identified the problem, it also recommended a solution. In June 2004, then-Deputy Treasury Secretary Samuel Bodman said: "We do not have a world-class system of supervision of the housing government- sponsored enterprises (GSEs), even though the importance of the housing financial system that the GSEs serve demands the best in supervision."


    Bush got involved in the effort personally, speaking out for the cause of reform: "Congress needs to pass legislation strengthening the independent regulator of government-sponsored enterprises like Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, so we can keep them focused on the mission to expand home ownership," he said in December. He even mentioned GSE reform in this year's State of the Union address.





    ---
    *Durango b301 #PE*
    * Origin: Doc's Place BBS Fido Since 1991 docsplace.tzo.com (1:123/140)
  • From TIM RICHARDSON@1:123/140 to BOB KLAHN on Thu Dec 17 10:59:00 2009
    On 12-17-09, BOB KLAHN said to TIM RICHARDSON:



    G.W. Bush wasn't even on the political horizon when the
    groundwork was laid for the housing mortgage meltdown.


    Yet he bought into it big time. He had 8 years in office, the
    first 6 he could have done a lot to stop it, instead he
    contributed to it.


    The blame can be laid right at the feet of Chris
    Dodd......Barney Frank...et al.


    And you bought into the big lie from the right. Barney Frank
    opposed the Bush "Ownership Society" with everyone owning a
    home. He supported, the Home Financing Reform act of 2005, the
    one McCain claimed co-sponsorship so proudly in the 2008
    election campaign. Frank co-authored the house version with
    republican Michael Oxley of Ohio. Frank did oppose amendments
    that he felt compromised it, but it did pass the house. Oxley
    said, when Bush torpedoed it in the Senate, Bush gave us a one
    fingered salute.



    How did Fannie and Freddie counter such efforts? They flooded Washington with lobbying dollars, doled out tens of thousands in political contributions and put offices in key congressional districts. Not surprisingly, these efforts worked.


    Leaders in Congress did not just balk at proposals to rein in Fannie and Freddie. They mocked the proposals as unserious and unnecessary.


    Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.) said the following on Sept. 11, 2003: "We see entities that are fundamentally sound financially. . . . And even if there
    were a problem, the federal government doesn't bail them out."
    Sen. Thomas Carper (D-Del.), later that year: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."


    As recently as last summer, when housing prices had clearly peaked and the mortgage market had started to seize up, Dodd called on Bush to "immediately reconsider his ill-advised" reform proposals. Frank, now chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, said that the president's suggestion for a strong, independent regulator of Fannie and Freddie was "inane."


    Sen. Dodd wonders what the Bush administration did to address the risks of Fannie and Freddie. Now, he knows. The real question is: Where was he?


    Al Hubbard was director of the National Economic Council and assistant to the president from 2005 to 2007.


    Noam Neusner was a speechwriter and communications director in the Bush administration from 2002 to 2005.




    ---
    *Durango b301 #PE*
    * Origin: Doc's Place BBS Fido Since 1991 docsplace.tzo.com (1:123/140)
  • From Bob Klahn@1:124/311 to Bob Ackley on Sat Dec 12 00:11:00 2009
    Replying to a message of JOHNJWILSON to BOB KLAHN:

    I guess I just have to join the crowd gathered to not talk about
    Klahn...

    FIDO is dying and Klahn is not helping keep it alive.

    Yeah, Bob stop leaden it down with research and statistics...no
    right-winger wants THAT.

    Internet research and phony statistics. He even admitted
    that statistics he uses are phony - "but they're the only
    numbers we have." Even so, they're still phony.

    Those are Bush administration stats. So, what ya gonna do? As
    long as we know they are cooked, and have enough ancillary data
    to determine a reasonable version of the truth, what else do you
    expect?

    And if I know the numbers are cooked, and they are cooked
    *AGAINST* my side, and they still support my side, then that's
    just an extra point for my side. Remember, Bush was *NOT*
    cooking the books to say what I wanted them to.

    IMO the Internet is not a valid source for anything.
    Anybody can put up any web site and post anything on it
    they want.

    And anyone can write a book and put anything in it they want.
    And anyone can chose any number of sources that support their
    side.

    IOW, there is nothing in the world you can trust.

    I use numbers that have been kept for a long time, under
    different administrations that hold differing philosophies. If
    the numbers survive all that then you can expect to get some use
    out of them.

    The professionals typically do not want to cook the books, and
    they tend to insist on footnoting the changes. That's the key
    that makes them useful.

    You have a choice, use what is available and use judgement to
    find what is reliable, or have nothing at all to work with.

    See the tagline for a good way to judge things.


    BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

    ... If a conservative says it, it's misstated, misleading, or just plain wrong.
    * Silver Xpress V4.5/P [Reg]
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    * Origin: FidoTel & QWK on the Web! www.fidotel.com (1:124/311)
  • From JOHNJWILSON@1:123/140 to BOB ACKLEY on Sat Dec 12 03:02:06 2009

    I guess I just have to join the crowd gathered to not talk about Klahn...

    FIDO is dying and Klahn is not helping keep it alive.

    He's keeping it relatively sane...


    Yeah, Bob stop leaden it down with research and statistics...no right-winger wants THAT.

    Internet research and phony statistics.
    Translation: (In most cases) 'That would prove something I don't want to believe'


    He even admitted that statistics
    he uses are phony - "but they're the only numbers we have."
    Not even the basis for a good guess, eh? I haven't been following: Bob, did
    you admit this?

    Even so,
    they're still phony.
    And you know thy are wrong because --?

    (Talk about abstractions! I don't even know what the TOPIC is! :-)





    IMO the Internet is not a valid source for anything. Anybody can put up
    any
    web site and post anything on it they want.

    You have to be selective, in music, art, literature, studies...but adducing them to be 'invalid'? (And you can get all of these online)
    Yer still takin' them negative pills, I see...

    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.0pr5
    * Origin: Doc's Place BBS Fido Since 1991 docsplace.tzo.com (1:123/140)
  • From Bob Klahn@1:124/311 to Bob Ackley on Sat Dec 12 09:27:00 2009

    ..

    FIDO is dying and Klahn is not helping keep it alive.

    Yeah, Bob stop leaden it down with research and statistics...no
    right-winger wants THAT.

    Internet research and phony statistics. He even admitted
    that statistics he uses are phony - "but they're the only
    numbers we have." Even so, they're still phony.

    ...

    And if I know the numbers are cooked, and they are cooked
    *AGAINST* my side, and they still support my side, then
    that's just an extra point for my side. Remember, Bush was
    *NOT* cooking the books to say what I wanted them to.

    Revisiting this.

    Many of the stats are not cooked. Not that they don't want to,
    but when they say 400,000 people applied for unemployment that's
    an actual count. That has to be accounted for to balance the
    books. The stats they cook are the ones they can chose how and
    what to count.

    Now that comes down largely to things like unemployment and
    inflation. They can chose who to define as unemployed, and what
    to count toward inflation.

    That can still be worked with when you have the numbers to look
    at. Unemployment is still a count, and you can get the numbers
    for those counted, and for those who need a job but who are not
    counted, etc. I used those long ago when informing Jeff Binkley
    the economy sucked.

    As to inflation, that is slicker as they keep redefining it and
    do not report on what they don't count. For that you have to
    have followed how they have manipulated it over the years. I
    remember Greenspan saying he thought the inflation numbers
    overstated inflation by about 1%. No studies, no analysis, he
    just thought it was so.

    The answer they came up with was not revise the counts to be
    more accurate, but just artificially adjust it. I saw that back
    in the mid '90s.

    Still, you can get a feel for what inflation is running, and
    they can't fake the wholesale prices, and other catagory price
    indexes, that would interfere with business too much. Investors
    and banks would not accept that.

    Then you go to the store and see what is happening. And watch
    your paycheck disappear faster.

    So, yes, it is workable. They can cook the books, but they
    aren't fooling us. They are screwing us, but we know it. And we
    ain't even getting kissed.


    BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

    ... If a conservative says it, it's misstated, misleading, or just plain wrong.
    * Silver Xpress V4.5/P [Reg]
    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.0pr5a
    * Origin: FidoTel & QWK on the Web! www.fidotel.com (1:124/311)
  • From BOB KLAHN@1:123/140 to JOHNJWILSON on Sat Dec 12 10:08:04 2009
    ...

    He even admitted that statistics
    he uses are phony - "but they're the only numbers we have."

    Not even the basis for a good guess, eh? I haven't been
    following: Bob, did you admit this?

    Admitted? Hell, I proclaimed it back in Dec 2007. Remember when
    the right wingers were saying "The fundamentals of the economy
    are sound"?

    I responded by showing how the unemployment stats were cooked,
    and pointed out that the economy sucked.

    Turned out that was the month the recession started.

    You can use the stats if you can find the numbers to tell you
    how far they are cooked. Which you can.

    The real "Honesty in government" would be for Obama to order
    all departements to issue the most accurate reports they
    possibly can, under threat of immediate terminatin for any false
    reports.

    ...

    BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

    ... The Innocent, the Eager, and the Doomed.
    --- Via Silver Xpress V4.5/P [Reg]
    * Origin: Doc's Place BBS Fido Since 1991 docsplace.tzo.com (1:123/140)
  • From BOB KLAHN@1:123/140 to BOB ACKLEY on Sat Dec 12 15:17:46 2009

    I guess I just have to join the crowd gathered to not talk about
    Klahn...

    FIDO is dying and Klahn is not helping keep it alive.

    Yeah, Bob stop leaden it down with research and statistics...no
    right-winger wants THAT.

    Internet research and phony statistics. He even admitted
    that statistics he uses are phony - "but they're the only
    numbers we have." Even so, they're still phony.

    IMO the Internet is not a valid source for anything.
    Anybody can put up any web site and post anything on it
    they want.

    BTW, the numbers I am using are *NOT* phony because they are
    from the web, but because they are cooked in the original. This
    is esp true of GW Bush's numbers. As I have pointed out
    repeatedly before.

    BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

    ... No woman ever shot a man while he was doing the dishes.
    --- Via Silver Xpress V4.5/P [Reg]
    * Origin: Doc's Place BBS Fido Since 1991 docsplace.tzo.com (1:123/140)