• Bin Laden is dead...

    From BOB KLAHN@1:123/140 to ALL on Sun May 8 16:28:04 2011

    ...

    BTW, it was intelligence gathered from interrogation of
    Gitmo detainees... i.e. the continuation of Bush policies
    that got UBL.

    There is no actual evidence the "Bush policies" contributed
    anything to getting UBL. What is known is, KSM was identified as
    being close to the courier, but he never gave up the courier's
    actual name. Further, there are contradictory reports about the
    nickname, and the reports say KSM only confirmed that he knew
    the courier, but the courier was a trivial figure, not even a
    real member of Al Qaeda.

    Confirming the name means they brought the name to KSM, not that
    KSM gave it up. At least one report says US intel had the
    courier's name in 2001, well before KSM was captured. If true,
    then KSM gave them nothing.



    BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

    ... Obama did in 2 yrs what Bush should have in 4 months but didn't in 7 yrs. --- Via Silver Xpress V4.5/P [Reg]
    * Origin: Since 1991 And Were Still Here! DOCSPLACE.TZO.COM (1:123/140)
  • From BOB KLAHN@1:123/140 to MARK HOFMANN on Sun May 8 21:08:14 2011

    ...

    I completely support waterboarding, the death penalty, and
    all effective measures that save innocent people's lives.

    Good, when you can show they are effective you will have
    something to discuss.


    BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

    ... Give me liberty or give me... HEY! CAN'T YA TAKE A JOKE??!!
    --- Via Silver Xpress V4.5/P [Reg]
    * Origin: Since 1991 And Were Still Here! DOCSPLACE.TZO.COM (1:123/140)
  • From BOB KLAHN@1:123/140 to ALL on Sun May 8 21:10:18 2011

    ...

    So we're supposed to lower ourselves to their level?

    So, enhanced interrogation is on the same level as
    beheading and dragging the charred bodies through the
    streets and then hanging them from bridges? Do tell.

    When you are talking about Blackwater Mercenaries, who have been
    known to shoot up innocent people with utter disregard for life,
    maybe so.

    I couldn't care less what they do to the BoM. Their actions
    aren't the same as Islam requiring me to be subjugated and
    pay "jizya" (poll tax) to the Muslim overlords.

    Since "Islam" does not require any such thing, you need a
    reality check.



    BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

    ... Obama did in 2 yrs what Bush should have in 4 months but didn't in 7 yrs. --- Via Silver Xpress V4.5/P [Reg]
    * Origin: Since 1991 And Were Still Here! DOCSPLACE.TZO.COM (1:123/140)
  • From Gary Perkins@1:393/31 to BOB KLAHN on Mon May 9 08:12:00 2011
    BOB KLAHN wrote to ALL <=-

    I couldn't care less what they do to the BoM. Their actions
    aren't the same as Islam requiring me to be subjugated and
    pay "jizya" (poll tax) to the Muslim overlords.

    Since "Islam" does not require any such thing, you need a
    reality check.

    Islam does require the tax in Muslim countries. Muslims pay zakat,
    People of the Book and nonbelievers pay jizya.

    My understanding is, however, that some countries no longer strictly
    follow the rules of zakat and jizya (maybe having a newer tax
    structure?), but there are still some which do. The rules have changed
    over time, and likely are different now than they once were; for
    instance, once, moving away from Muslim territory was punishable by
    enslavement were they caught.


    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    --- SBBSecho 2.12-Win32
    * Origin: SETX Chat and BBS - Vidor, TX (1:393/31) (1:393/31)
  • From BOB KLAHN@1:123/140 to GARY PERKINS on Tue May 10 23:18:24 2011
    BOB KLAHN wrote to ALL <=-

    I couldn't care less what they do to the BoM. Their actions
    aren't the same as Islam requiring me to be subjugated and
    pay "jizya" (poll tax) to the Muslim overlords.

    Since "Islam" does not require any such thing, you need a
    reality check.

    Islam does require the tax in Muslim countries. Muslims
    pay zakat, People of the Book and nonbelievers pay jizya.

    My understanding is, however, that some countries no longer
    strictly follow the rules of zakat and jizya (maybe having
    a newer tax structure?), but there are still some which do.
    The rules have changed over time, and likely are different
    now than they once were; for instance, once, moving away
    from Muslim territory was punishable by enslavement were
    they caught.

    Ok, did a bit more research. I have yet to figure out how you
    have a 'poll tax' without a vote. See, I understand a poll tax
    as a tax to be allowed to vote. Is there any other form?

    What I find is the term "poll tax" seems to be a misnomer. It's
    just a tax.

    I also found, the tax included an exemption to military service.
    Which implies Muslims had universal military service, at least
    in the early days.

    Also, I wonder about the word 'jizya'. Why do they use that word
    instead of translating it? I wonder if that has changed over the
    centuries. I did find, the 'jizya' is Sunni, not just Islamic.
    The Shia have a different system. Which makes me think the term
    "jizya" was Sunni also, perhaps something changed over the
    centuries, originally meaning something else.

    Many Islamic majority countries are officially secular. I posted
    something on this a while back. And don't forget, Sharia is
    unique to every Islamic group. Even among the same branch of
    Islam Sharia differs from community to community.

    Now, moving away from Muslim territory for who? Muslims or
    non-Muslims? From what I have read leaving Muslim territory was
    always the proper alternative to paying the tax.

    OTOH, again, national law might well be different. For example,
    non-Muslims are supposed to be able to practice their relgion,
    but Saud Arabia is clearly in violation of that rule.

    A big difference is, Zakat is like a tithe, and is given to the
    poor. One of the pillars of Islam. This may not be adhered to in
    many countries, as Muslims actually seem to be no more able to
    follow the teachings of their own religion than Christians are.

    Summary: The whole thing seems to depend on the Islamic group in
    question.



    BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

    ... "Dave, put down those Windows Vista disks. Dave. Daaavvveee..." - HAL 9000 --- Via Silver Xpress V4.5/P [Reg]
    * Origin: Since 1991 And Were Still Here! DOCSPLACE.TZO.COM (1:123/140)
  • From Gary Perkins@1:393/31 to BOB KLAHN on Wed May 11 08:30:00 2011
    BOB KLAHN wrote to GARY PERKINS <=-

    BOB KLAHN wrote to ALL <=-

    I couldn't care less what they do to the BoM. Their actions
    aren't the same as Islam requiring me to be subjugated and
    pay "jizya" (poll tax) to the Muslim overlords.

    Since "Islam" does not require any such thing, you need a
    reality check.

    Islam does require the tax in Muslim countries. Muslims
    pay zakat, People of the Book and nonbelievers pay jizya.

    Summary: The whole thing seems to depend on the Islamic group in
    question.

    Yep. Our religions require a lot of things we don't actually practice.
    Same with Islam. For many of the things Islam requires, the root can
    actually be found in the Bible.


    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    --- SBBSecho 2.12-Win32
    * Origin: SETX Chat and BBS - Vidor, TX (1:393/31) (1:393/31)
  • From BOB KLAHN@1:123/140 to GARY PERKINS on Tue May 17 23:02:52 2011

    ...

    Summary: The whole thing seems to depend on the Islamic group in
    question.

    Yep. Our religions require a lot of things we don't
    actually practice. Same with Islam. For many of the things
    Islam requires, the root can actually be found in the Bible.

    Ah, you are ahead of the pack on that last.



    BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

    ... Illuminati vehicles courtesy of the Fnord Motor Co.
    --- Via Silver Xpress V4.5/P [Reg]
    * Origin: Since 1991 And Were Still Here! DOCSPLACE.TZO.COM (1:123/140)
  • From Gary Perkins@1:393/31 to BOB KLAHN on Wed May 18 08:37:00 2011
    BOB KLAHN wrote to GARY PERKINS <=-

    ...

    Summary: The whole thing seems to depend on the Islamic group in
    question.

    Yep. Our religions require a lot of things we don't
    actually practice. Same with Islam. For many of the things
    Islam requires, the root can actually be found in the Bible.

    Ah, you are ahead of the pack on that last.

    I read the Bible with an open mind, and with all the talk of Islam, it
    got me interested in learning more. So, I read up on Wikipedia quite a
    bit, and started reading the Bible again for the first time since I was
    a child. I found out through Wikipedia that Islam and the other Christian religions have a common root, and that Muhammad came several hundred
    years after Christ, and that Islam even considers Christ to be a prophet.

    I went on to read many of the requirements of Islam, then went to the
    Bible. I keep it in my bathroom and read when I'm on my throne... ;)
    It looks to me like Islam is simply a more rigorous and spiritual
    religion, whereas what most of us follow now has simply done away with
    most of our rituals.

    I recently received a translated Quran in the mail (you can get one free
    from freequran.com), so I'm looking forward to reading it directly.



    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    --- SBBSecho 2.12-Linux
    * Origin: SETX Chat and BBS - Vidor, TX (1:393/31) (1:393/31)
  • From BOB KLAHN@1:123/140 to GARY PERKINS on Sun May 22 02:57:34 2011

    ...

    Ah, you are ahead of the pack on that last.

    I read the Bible with an open mind, and with all the talk

    Dangerous. That might lead to independent thinking... you know
    how evil that is.

    of Islam, it got me interested in learning more. So, I
    read up on Wikipedia quite a bit, and started reading the
    Bible again for the first time since I was a child. I
    found out through Wikipedia that Islam and the other
    Christian religions have a common root, and that Muhammad
    came several hundred years after Christ, and that Islam
    even considers Christ to be a prophet.

    Not only a prophet, but Muhammed said Jesus was a greater
    prophet.

    I went on to read many of the requirements of Islam, then
    went to the Bible. I keep it in my bathroom and read when
    I'm on my throne... ;) It looks to me like Islam is simply
    a more rigorous and spiritual religion, whereas what most
    of us follow now has simply done away with most of our
    rituals.

    Uh... not the Catholic Church. Rituals are part and parcel of
    it.

    Islam is not more rigorous or spiritual. The greatest
    commonality between the religions is, how many claimed adherents
    don't pay much attention to the teachings of their religion.

    Much of the practice of Muslims actually is not Islamic, and
    often is opposed by Islam.

    Christianity and Judaism are just as rigorous and spiritual,
    when someone actually looks into them. Christians and Jews tend
    to skate on their faiths as much as Muslims do.

    BTW, if you are interested, watch a program on Canadian TV,
    Little Mosque on the Prairie. If you can get any Canadian TV. I
    believe it is also available on BBC TV, if you can get any of
    that. I get a Canadian station on my cable, but have to pay
    extra for the BBC.

    I recently received a translated Quran in the mail (you can
    get one free from freequran.com), so I'm looking forward to
    reading it directly.

    It's also available from Project Gutenberg.

    BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

    ... Homonyms are a reel waist of thyme.
    --- Via Silver Xpress V4.5/P [Reg]
    * Origin: Since 1991 And Were Still Here! DOCSPLACE.TZO.COM (1:123/140)