• Once upon a time.

    From BOB KLAHN@1:123/140 to ALL on Sat Mar 26 15:11:26 2011

    As I was leaving IHOP last night, after a quick trip out for a
    late dinner, the oldies music they play started up a very old
    one. We stopped in the entry way to listen as it was one we knew
    when we were quite young.

    Do you remember "Telstar"?

    I mentioned that Telstar is actually quite significant.

    Once this was a country that made a hit of a musical piece that
    celebrated a scientific and technical achievement.

    Now this country runs rampant with no-nothings that smear and
    lie about scientists who offer honest analysis that might just
    hurt the no-nothings bank accounts.

    There are a host of hate spewers who are selling their souls and
    spreading fraud and lies on subjects they know nothing about. To
    a no-nothing calling someone a scientist gives him equal status
    with those who actully know a specific subject, if the
    no-nothings can profit from it, or be frightened enough to turn
    off their brains.

    Religious power seekers rant against science in the classroom,
    and try to pretend they can formulate a science to back up their
    religious beliefs.

    On top of all that, if you oppose them you are accused of
    biggotry. The no-nothings of today claim they are the real
    Christians, and those who do not accept their narrow views are
    anti-Christian.

    Once America was a nation that celebrated knowledge and science.

    Now America is a nation where right wing lies and hate are the
    nationl currency of debate.

    Enjoy your prison.


    BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

    ... Republicans-united by feelings of Victimhood, and obsessed with Revenge. --- Via Silver Xpress V4.5/P [Reg]
    * Origin: Since 1991 And Were Still Here! DOCSPLACE.TZO.COM (1:123/140)
  • From Richard Webb@1:116/901 to BOB KLAHN on Sun Mar 27 03:07:57 2011
    HEllo Bob,

    On Sat 2039-Mar-26 15:11, BOB KLAHN (1:123/140) wrote to ALL:

    <snip>

    Do you remember "Telstar"?

    INdeed.

    I mentioned that Telstar is actually quite significant.

    Once this was a country that made a hit of a musical piece that celebrated a scientific and technical achievement.

    OF course, we actually celebrated lots of scientific and
    technical achievements back then. But since then we've
    become a culture of pampered dipshits the celebrate nothing
    but greed. Just more for me, however I get it and damn the
    consequences. I think in another echo you moderate I
    mentioned this in my discussion of cultural malaise.

    <snip again>

    Once America was a nation that celebrated knowledge and science.

    Now America is a nation where right wing lies and hate are the
    nationl currency of debate.

    Enjoy your prison.

    OF course they will, if it has all sorts of television
    channels to choose from, vacuous music (in many genres) that especially can be had for free and everything available at
    the touch of a button it's a pretty comfortable prison. As
    I said in that thread in the other echo, we've lost touch
    with who we are and how we got here.

    I blame the left as much as the right in this country for
    that one. INstead of working to instill a respect for
    knowledge and the meaning of taking responsibility in our
    young we've felt that politically correct speech and a few
    platitudes is all that's needed. Just shut up and consume
    whatever is fed you by the media, and those who are your
    cultural icons but really don't have any knowledge either.
    WHen we celebrate gangstas whose only skill is intimidating
    somebody and selling crack and put them on pedestals because they have the trapping of wealth and let the wall street con men get a free pass on their criminal behavior it's no
    wonder.

    And this surprises you how?


    Regards,
    Richard
    --- timEd 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: (1:116/901)
  • From BOB KLAHN@1:123/140 to RICHARD WEBB on Mon Mar 28 22:49:36 2011

    ...

    Once America was a nation that celebrated knowledge and science.

    Now America is a nation where right wing lies and hate are the
    nationl currency of debate.

    Enjoy your prison.

    ...

    And this surprises you how?

    Saddens, not surprises.


    BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

    ... There is a current shortage of plowshares and a vast surplus of swords.
    --- Via Silver Xpress V4.5/P [Reg]
    * Origin: Since 1991 And Were Still Here! DOCSPLACE.TZO.COM (1:123/140)
  • From Richard Webb@1:116/901 to BOB KLAHN on Tue Mar 29 14:56:02 2011
    Hi Bob,

    On Mon 2039-Mar-28 22:49, BOB KLAHN (1:123/140) wrote to RICHARD WEBB:

    Once America was a nation that celebrated knowledge and science.

    Now America is a nation where right wing lies and hate are the
    nationl currency of debate.

    Enjoy your prison.

    And this surprises you how?

    Saddens, not surprises.

    Doesn't do either for me, angers me. We don't teach kids
    civics anymore, we just keep dumbing it down and dumbing it
    own, but the big fascists who really have a lot to gain like a dumbed down populace.

    Most of these pieces of human garbage would discount and
    ridicule the scientists who put the toys they now enjoy in
    their hands. tHey have no clue whatsoever what gave them
    their little satellite dish and their fifty-seven channels
    of nothin' on.
    Sometimes I thank god I'm already on the down side of the
    slippery slope, at least I won't get to see the worst of
    what the fascists and their dumbed down masses will create.
    I am truly I left offspring behind to be part of it however.


    Regards,
    Richard
    --- timEd 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: (1:116/901)
  • From Richard Webb@1:116/901 to BOB KLAHN on Tue Mar 29 16:17:26 2011
    HI Bob,
    SOrry 'bout that, had to exit reader/editor to run a ham
    radio net ...
    so,

    following up a message from Richard Webb to BOB KLAHN:

    Once America was a nation that celebrated knowledge and science.

    Now America is a nation where right wing lies and hate are the
    nationl currency of debate.

    THey're much easier, dumb down the populace, sell 'em
    anything.

    Enjoy your prison.

    And this surprises you how?

    Saddens, not surprises.

    Doesn't do either for me, angers me. We don't teach kids
    civics anymore, we just keep dumbing it down and dumbing it
    own, but the big fascists who really have a lot to gain like a
    dumbed down populace.

    YEs they do, which is why we can't discuss climate change,
    our scientists are discouraged from pursuing stem cell
    research that could save lives. tO hell with the diabetics
    and people with immune system deficiencies who might be
    helped, and therefore become productive again. REal science is inconvenient, it might actually improve life on this
    planet, but there's not enough return on it to fatten the
    wallets of the parasites in WAll street, etc.

    Most of these pieces of human garbage would discount and
    ridicule the scientists who put the toys they now enjoy in
    their hands. They have no clue whatsoever what gave them
    their little satellite dish and their fifty-seven channels
    of nothin' on.

    OF course, they're discouraged from even contemplating how
    it is they have all these toys. RUpert and the wall street
    types can use the great technological advances of yesterday
    to dumb down and control the masses of American sheeple.
    What was once the greatest country on earth is no longer a
    bastion of freedom and a beacon of hope. Screw hope and
    freedom, there's not enough money in it.
    But, to make sure that hope and freedom go by the boards we
    have to discount and marginalize true culture as well.
    Music and art, screw them too. WE've caused there to be a
    fight between the ignorant "we want it all for free" folks
    and the creators who should expect to get paid for their
    work.

    Sometimes I thank god I'm already on the down side of the
    slippery slope, at least I won't get to see the worst of
    what the fascists and their dumbed down masses will create.
    I am truly sorry I left offspring behind to be part of it however.

    I'll stand by that last remark.

    Regards,
    Richard
    --- timEd 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: (1:116/901)
  • From WAYNE CHIRNSIDE@1:123/140 to RICHARD WEBB on Tue Mar 29 15:51:00 2011
    RICHARD WEBB wrote to BOB KLAHN <=-

    Hi Bob,

    On Mon 2039-Mar-28 22:49, BOB KLAHN (1:123/140) wrote to RICHARD WEBB:

    Once America was a nation that celebrated knowledge and science.

    Now America is a nation where right wing lies and hate are the
    nationl currency of debate.

    Enjoy your prison.

    And this surprises you how?

    Saddens, not surprises.

    Doesn't do either for me, angers me.

    Don't feel like you're The Lone Ranger.

    We don't teach kids
    civics anymore, we just keep dumbing it down and dumbing it
    down,

    Commented to this myself recently.

    but the big fascists who really have a lot to gain like a dumbed
    down populace.

    Yup.
    Ionising radiation is now good for you!
    MSNBC part owned by G.E. really downplayed the very real threat there.

    European sources put the world wide death total from Chernobyl
    at some one million excess deaths.

    Most of these pieces of human garbage would discount and
    ridicule the scientists who put the toys they now enjoy in
    their hands. tHey have no clue whatsoever what gave them
    their little satellite dish and their fifty-seven channels
    of nothin' on.

    No television here.
    Cable internet though.
    Shoot the ISP I'm with no longer even lists independent services, it's all
    such a _deal_, you'll take our bundled internet, television and phone
    service package and like it!

    Where went the $2.oo upgrade for a much faster internet connection that
    was offered just a few months ago?
    I got to pay the two dollars, without being notified and the
    connection speed _dropped_ about 21K o average :-(

    Sometimes I thank god I'm already on the down side of the
    slippery slope,

    A daily feeling here.

    at least I won't get to see the worst of
    what the fascists and their dumbed down masses will create.
    I am truly I left offspring behind to be part of it however.

    No kids and I did take care to arrange it that way.


    ... It is the best of all possible worlds.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    * Origin: Since 1991 And Were Still Here! DOCSPLACE.TZO.COM (1:123/140)
  • From WAYNE CHIRNSIDE@1:123/140 to RICHARD WEBB on Tue Mar 29 15:55:00 2011
    RICHARD WEBB wrote to BOB KLAHN <=-

    HI Bob,
    SOrry 'bout that, had to exit reader/editor to run a ham
    radio net ...
    so,

    following up a message from Richard Webb to BOB KLAHN:

    Once America was a nation that celebrated knowledge and science.

    Now America is a nation where right wing lies and hate are the
    nationl currency of debate.

    THey're much easier, dumb down the populace, sell 'em
    anything.

    Enjoy your prison.

    And this surprises you how?

    Saddens, not surprises.

    Doesn't do either for me, angers me. We don't teach kids
    civics anymore, we just keep dumbing it down and dumbing it
    own, but the big fascists who really have a lot to gain like a
    dumbed down populace.

    YEs they do, which is why we can't discuss climate change,

    I recall Hanson with NASA being gagged.

    our scientists are discouraged from pursuing stem cell
    research that could save lives.

    Allow cripples a chance to walk again and give a life back
    to badly wounded veterans.

    tO hell with the diabetics
    and people with immune system deficiencies who might be
    helped, and therefore become productive again. REal science is inconvenient, it might actually improve life on this
    planet, but there's not enough return on it to fatten the
    wallets of the parasites in WAll street, etc.

    Most of these pieces of human garbage would discount and
    ridicule the scientists who put the toys they now enjoy in
    their hands. They have no clue whatsoever what gave them
    their little satellite dish and their fifty-seven channels
    of nothin' on.

    OF course, they're discouraged from even contemplating how
    it is they have all these toys. RUpert and the wall street
    types can use the great technological advances of yesterday
    to dumb down and control the masses of American sheeple.

    Don't hold back Richard, tell us what you really think ;-)
    Saves me from saying it.

    What was once the greatest country on earth is no longer a
    bastion of freedom and a beacon of hope. Screw hope and
    freedom, there's not enough money in it.
    But, to make sure that hope and freedom go by the boards we
    have to discount and marginalize true culture as well.
    Music and art, screw them too. WE've caused there to be a
    fight between the ignorant "we want it all for free" folks
    and the creators who should expect to get paid for their
    work.

    Sometimes I thank god I'm already on the down side of the
    slippery slope, at least I won't get to see the worst of
    what the fascists and their dumbed down masses will create.
    I am truly sorry I left offspring behind to be part of it however.

    I'll stand by that last remark.

    Regards,
    Richard
    --- timEd 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: (1:116/901)

    ... It is the best of all possible worlds.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    * Origin: Since 1991 And Were Still Here! DOCSPLACE.TZO.COM (1:123/140)
  • From Ross Sauer@1:123/789 to Richard Webb on Tue Mar 29 17:59:02 2011
    "Richard Webb -> BOB KLAHN" <1:116/901> wrote in news:288 $CONTROVERSIAL@JamNNTPd:

    And this surprises you how?

    Saddens, not surprises.

    Doesn't do either for me, angers me. We don't teach kids
    civics anymore, we just keep dumbing it down and dumbing it
    own, but the big fascists who really have a lot to gain like a dumbed
    down populace.

    Most of these pieces of human garbage would discount and
    ridicule the scientists who put the toys they now enjoy in
    their hands. tHey have no clue whatsoever what gave them
    their little satellite dish and their fifty-seven channels
    of nothin' on.
    Sometimes I thank god I'm already on the down side of the
    slippery slope, at least I won't get to see the worst of
    what the fascists and their dumbed down masses will create.
    I am truly I left offspring behind to be part of it however.

    Not suprising to me in the least.

    And it's nothing new, popular media denigrates intellectual achievments.

    Back in the 1950's, Isaac Asimov wrote an essay called "The Cult Of
    Ignorance" decrying this, using the example of a movie, showing a woman who does research, but she isn't "happy" until Mr Tall Dark And Handsome sweeps
    her off her feet, she dumps her research to marry TD & H.

    Obama gets denigrated for being "too intellectual/elite," while George W
    Bush was "just a guy we could have a beer with."

    --- Xnews/5.04.25
    * Origin: Fidonet Via Newsreader - http://www.easternstar.info (1:123/789.0)
  • From Richard Webb@1:116/901 to WAYNE CHIRNSIDE on Tue Mar 29 21:25:18 2011
    HI Wayne,

    On Tue 2039-Mar-29 15:51, WAYNE CHIRNSIDE (1:123/140) wrote to RICHARD WEBB:

    <snip>

    And this surprises you how?

    Saddens, not surprises.

    Doesn't do either for me, angers me.

    Don't feel like you're The Lone Ranger.

    We don't want to teach kids science, but want them to listen to all this creationist bs. We don't teach civics, have
    money for arts education and culture, but plenty of money
    for them to go out and collide with each other and sustain
    head injuries. YEah right.

    but the big fascists who really have a lot to gain like a dumbed
    down populace.

    Yup.
    Ionising radiation is now good for you!
    MSNBC part owned by G.E. really downplayed the very real threat
    there.

    WE're gonna need nukes, like it or not to get through the
    next few decades until we figure out the lower carbon
    footprint thing. The longer we put it off because the
    fascists run the show the more we're gonna need those nukes
    to bridge the gap.

    <snip again>
    Most of these pieces of human garbage would discount and
    ridicule the scientists who put the toys they now enjoy in
    their hands. tHey have no clue whatsoever what gave them
    their little satellite dish and their fifty-seven channels
    of nothin' on.

    No television here.
    Cable internet though.
    Shoot the ISP I'm with no longer even lists independent services,
    it's all such a _deal_, you'll take our bundled internet, television
    and phone service package and like it!

    Where went the $2.oo upgrade for a much faster internet connection
    that was offered just a few months ago?

    That's why I won't deal with the cable companies. NO tv,
    don't want basic cable. Hate Disney corporation about as
    much as RUpert. IF we ever do open season on furriners
    Rupert should be first in line.

    <snip again>

    at least I won't get to see the worst of
    what the fascists and their dumbed down masses will create.
    I am truly sorry I left offspring behind to be part of it however.

    No kids and I did take care to arrange it that way.


    YEah but I bought into all that good stuff I learned in
    civics class and whatever. i got older, and I got smarter.
    That's why at age 25 I went to see the surgeon about that
    reproductive thing.

    Regards,
    Richard
    --- timEd 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: (1:116/901)
  • From BOB KLAHN@1:123/140 to RICHARD WEBB on Wed Mar 30 20:10:22 2011

    Once America was a nation that celebrated knowledge and science.

    Now America is a nation where right wing lies and hate are the
    nationl currency of debate.

    THey're much easier, dumb down the populace, sell 'em
    anything.

    That's always been the rule. It's just easier when they own the
    media.

    Enjoy your prison.

    And this surprises you how?

    Saddens, not surprises.

    Doesn't do either for me, angers me. We don't teach kids
    civics anymore, we just keep dumbing it down and dumbing it
    own, but the big fascists who really have a lot to gain like a
    dumbed down populace.

    Yep. And they sell it by prattling about how much money they are
    saving, and how much more the people would have to pay. Yet we
    don't seem to be paying any less.

    ...

    science is inconvenient, it might actually improve life on
    this planet, but there's not enough return on it to fatten
    the wallets of the parasites in WAll street, etc.

    The parasites on Wall Street are the right targets for the
    anger. They don't profit from a better life, they profit whether
    we win or lose.

    ...

    their hands. They have no clue whatsoever what gave them
    their little satellite dish and their fifty-seven channels
    of nothin' on.

    Fifty seven? More like a hundred and fifty seven, and still
    nothing on.

    ...

    What was once the greatest country on earth is no longer a
    bastion of freedom and a beacon of hope. Screw hope and
    freedom, there's not enough money in it.

    Same for peace and plenty. You can't be king if there isn't
    someone you can rule over.

    But, to make sure that hope and freedom go by the boards we
    have to discount and marginalize true culture as well.
    Music and art, screw them too. WE've caused there to be a
    fight between the ignorant "we want it all for free" folks
    and the creators who should expect to get paid for their
    work.

    Well, the Wall Street types want it all for free too, just in
    much bigger measure.

    Sometimes I thank god I'm already on the down side of the
    slippery slope, at least I won't get to see the worst of
    what the fascists and their dumbed down masses will create.
    I am truly sorry I left offspring behind to be part of it however.

    I'll stand by that last remark.

    I just hope I get to stick around long enough to join the
    battle.



    BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

    ... Translating all my jokes into French, they lose something in the original. --- Via Silver Xpress V4.5/P [Reg]
    * Origin: Since 1991 And Were Still Here! DOCSPLACE.TZO.COM (1:123/140)
  • From Richard Webb@1:116/901 to BOB KLAHN on Thu Mar 31 02:21:47 2011
    HI Bob,

    On Wed 2039-Mar-30 20:10, BOB KLAHN (1:123/140) wrote to RICHARD WEBB:

    THey're much easier, dumb down the populace, sell 'em
    anything.

    That's always been the rule. It's just easier when they own the
    media.

    YEah I know, civics, all that good stuff, don't bother with
    that.
    Reading an article, yeah I know, NY times, not some folks'
    favorite rag, but talking about how much more we spend than
    many other countries on education, and how much less we get
    for it. AS they said, put the money in cultural programs,
    teachers, the real basics, less on hauling kids by bus, and
    athletics, and ... you know the drill.

    Doesn't do either for me, angers me. We don't teach kids
    civics anymore, we just keep dumbing it down and dumbing it
    own, but the big fascists who really have a lot to gain like a
    dumbed down populace.

    Yep. And they sell it by prattling about how much money they are
    saving, and how much more the people would have to pay. Yet we
    don't seem to be paying any less.

    Depends on how you save money whether you're actually
    robbing from your own future or not though.

    The parasites on Wall Street are the right targets for the
    anger. They don't profit from a better life, they profit whether
    we win or lose.

    That's my problem with them exactly. I understand the house has to win the majority of the time to stand in business,
    but when the house wins no matter what, and you've not got a choice but to play
    ...

    Fifty seven? More like a hundred and fifty seven, and still
    nothing on.

    YEah I know, but that Springsteen song came to mind, so I
    used Bruce's number <grin>.

    What was once the greatest country on earth is no longer a
    bastion of freedom and a beacon of hope. Screw hope and
    freedom, there's not enough money in it.

    Same for peace and plenty. You can't be king if there isn't
    someone you can rule over.

    YEah I know, but if you can still everything you need or
    want who in his right mind would want to be king? THen you
    get the responsibility for all of it too.

    But, to make sure that hope and freedom go by the boards we
    have to discount and marginalize true culture as well.
    Music and art, screw them too. WE've caused there to be a
    fight between the ignorant "we want it all for free" folks
    and the creators who should expect to get paid for their
    work.

    Well, the Wall Street types want it all for free too, just in much
    bigger measure.

    OF course they do, and they've set up the creative arts
    types and the true creators of the intellectual property
    that is now being fought over to lose no matter how it goes. When as a young man reading sci fi I thought of something
    like the internet I expected to see it become a true
    cultural renaissance, but these days I'm not so sure. But,
    the creative artists who use it to get their art out there
    don't have the budget or the expert knowledge to create
    listenable or viewable product oftentimes. Acquiring the
    facilities and the expertise using them costs money, and in
    today's markets that isn't available.

    Sometimes I thank god I'm already on the down side of the
    slippery slope, at least I won't get to see the worst of
    what the fascists and their dumbed down masses will create.
    I am truly sorry I left offspring behind to be part of it however.

    I'll stand by that last remark.

    I just hope I get to stick around long enough to join the
    battle.

    tO be honest with you Bob, I'm tired of the battle. I spent too much of my younger years when not playing music or
    working a sound board engaged in it. I did enough volunteer advocacy back in the '80's to mid-nineties that I'm burned
    out on it. Trouble is, I know it's needed more now than
    ever before, and I just can't bring myself to join that
    world again. I burned my candle at both ends pretty good
    back then <grin>.



    Regards,
    Richard
    --- timEd 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: (1:116/901)
  • From WAYNE CHIRNSIDE@1:123/140 to RICHARD WEBB on Wed Mar 30 23:18:50 2011
    HI Wayne,

    On Tue 2039-Mar-29 15:51, WAYNE CHIRNSIDE (1:123/140) wrote to RICHARD
    WEBB:

    <snip>

    And this surprises you how?

    Saddens, not surprises.

    Doesn't do either for me, angers me.

    Don't feel like you're The Lone Ranger.

    We don't want to teach kids science, but want them to listen to all this creationist bs. We don't teach civics, have
    money for arts education and culture, but plenty of money
    for them to go out and collide with each other and sustain
    head injuries. YEah right.

    but the big fascists who really have a lot to gain like a dumbed
    down populace.

    Yup.
    Ionizing radiation is now good for you!
    MSNBC part owned by G.E. really downplayed the very real threat
    there.

    A recent comprehensive Stanford University study has revealed that current alternate energy technology along with increases in efficiency and
    conservation could lead the U.S. to cost competitive green energy in
    between 20 - 40 years.

    Assuming the political will to go in that direction were there.
    Nuclear is quite simply the most expensive form of energy there
    is and could not even be considered if the costs of the wastes and
    liability were taken into consideration.

    The insurance liability has been shifted to the taxpayer
    in the form of the The Price-Anderson Nuclear Industries Indemnity Act.

    That said I give grudging and limited support to LFTR or floride molten
    salt reactors as they are inherently fail safe and simply turn off
    if the outside power and safety systems go out.
    If one overheats a frozen plug melts, the fuel drains out
    and it turns itself off.

    This design also essentially eats its own waste as well as being
    able to use other light water reactors waste for fuel.
    Further in addition to far less volumes of waste the waste that is
    generated
    has no long lived radioactive waste with several valuable stable isotopes recoverable in quite a limited time scale.

    Still of concern is locating them in a geologically stable area
    as well as an area safe from tsunami.

    WE're gonna need nukes, like it or not to get through the
    next few decades until we figure out the lower carbon
    footprint thing.

    I was of that opinion until quite recently and if it will prevent
    foreign policy conflict overseas I'm for it.

    However I firmly believe what is holding up even friendlier forms of alternative energies are vested corporate interests intent upon squeezing
    every last petrodollar out of the hands of the American people at the
    expense in blood to our servicemen and service woman.
    See the tagline.

    The longer we put it off because the
    fascists run the show the more we're gonna need those nukes
    to bridge the gap.

    The longer either is held off the more profitable for the fascists.
    So that's what they'll do.
    Costs or country be damned.

    <snip again>
    Most of these pieces of human garbage would discount and
    ridicule the scientists who put the toys they now enjoy in
    their hands. tHey have no clue whatsoever what gave them
    their little satellite dish and their fifty-seven channels
    of nothin' on.

    <snip>

    ...Smedley Butler explained it to me.
    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.0pr5
    * Origin: Since 1991 And Were Still Here! DOCSPLACE.TZO.COM (1:123/140)
  • From Richard Webb@1:116/901 to WAYNE CHIRNSIDE on Thu Mar 31 13:31:42 2011
    HEllo Wayne,

    On Wed 2039-Mar-30 23:18, WAYNE CHIRNSIDE (1:123/140) wrote to RICHARD WEBB:

    <big snip>

    A recent comprehensive Stanford University study has revealed that
    current alternate energy technology along with increases in
    efficiency and conservation could lead the U.S. to cost competitive
    green energy in between 20 - 40 years.

    DO we have 20-40 years though? The longer we hem and haw
    the more of that 20-40 years we'll have used up. sOme folks have been beating the drum about this since the late
    seventies.

    <snip again>
    That said I give grudging and limited support to LFTR or floride
    molten salt reactors as they are inherently fail safe and simply
    turn off if the outside power and safety systems go out.
    If one overheats a frozen plug melts, the fuel drains out
    and it turns itself off.

    That's the technology I was trying to think of the other
    day. I've done a little reading on it, and know that about
    a year ago you were too iirc.

    <snip again>
    Still of concern is locating them in a geologically stable area as
    well as an area safe from tsunami.

    RIght, but plenty of those in the midsection of the country. NO I wouldn't put one in 2/3 of the state of mIssouri, or
    eastern or Central Arkansas, western TEnnessee, etc. But,
    I'd have no problem living near one in Des MOines, or
    Chicago, or half a dozen other places I could think of.

    WE're gonna need nukes, like it or not to get through the
    next few decades until we figure out the lower carbon
    footprint thing.

    I was of that opinion until quite recently and if it will prevent
    foreign policy conflict overseas I'm for it.

    That has to be a priority right now, we've killed too many
    of our young people over anything but true freedom and
    liberty for the folks living in those places. THIs old
    libertarian doesn't believe that our young men and women
    should risk death and dismemberment for anything but helping folks obtain liberty and self determination. Any other
    reason can't be justified no matter how the politicos spin
    it.

    However I firmly believe what is holding up even friendlier forms of alternative energies are vested corporate interests intent upon
    squeezing every last petrodollar out of the hands of the American
    people at the expense in blood to our servicemen and service woman.

    I've believed that for a long time Wayne. They'll get what
    they're after, they've got enough ignorant ditto heads to
    git 'er done.


    Regards,
    Richard
    --- timEd 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: (1:116/901)
  • From BOB KLAHN@1:123/140 to WAYNE CHIRNSIDE on Sat Apr 2 20:07:58 2011

    but the big fascists who really have a lot to gain like a dumbed
    down populace.

    Yup.
    Ionizing radiation is now good for you!
    MSNBC part owned by G.E. really downplayed the very real threat
    there.

    Don't worry, soon all the media will be owned by one corporation
    and we will all hear all the same reports all the time.

    A recent comprehensive Stanford University study has
    revealed that current alternate energy technology along
    with increases in efficiency and conservation could lead
    the U.S. to cost competitive green energy in between 20 -
    40 years.

    IOW, well worth working for, but not a current practical answer.

    Assuming the political will to go in that direction were
    there. Nuclear is quite simply the most expensive form of
    energy there is and could not even be considered if the
    costs of the wastes and liability were taken into
    consideration.

    The insurance liability has been shifted to the taxpayer
    in the form of the The Price-Anderson Nuclear Industries
    Indemnity Act.

    I have long wondered, if Nuclear power is so safe why to they
    need limits on liability?

    That said I give grudging and limited support to LFTR or
    floride molten salt reactors as they are inherently fail
    safe and simply turn off if the outside power and safety
    systems go out. If one overheats a frozen plug melts, the
    fuel drains out and it turns itself off.

    I would like to see some research and development on some
    different versions.

    ...

    Still of concern is locating them in a geologically stable
    area as well as an area safe from tsunami.

    WE're gonna need nukes, like it or not to get through the
    next few decades until we figure out the lower carbon
    footprint thing.

    I was of that opinion until quite recently and if it will
    prevent foreign policy conflict overseas I'm for it.

    Conservation is still the best first step, but the rest does
    need to come down the pike.

    However I firmly believe what is holding up even friendlier
    forms of alternative energies are vested corporate
    interests intent upon squeezing every last petrodollar out
    of the hands of the American people at the expense in blood
    to our servicemen and service woman. See the tagline.

    I don't give them credit for being that good as to get away with
    that.

    ...

    BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

    ... Professional soldiers are predictable, but the world is full of amateurs --- Via Silver Xpress V4.5/P [Reg]
    * Origin: Since 1991 And Were Still Here! DOCSPLACE.TZO.COM (1:123/140)
  • From BOB KLAHN@1:123/140 to RICHARD WEBB on Sat Apr 2 20:00:08 2011

    THey're much easier, dumb down the populace, sell 'em
    anything.

    That's always been the rule. It's just easier when they own the
    media.

    YEah I know, civics, all that good stuff, don't bother with
    that.
    Reading an article, yeah I know, NY times, not some folks'
    favorite rag, but talking about how much more we spend than
    many other countries on education, and how much less we get
    for it. AS they said, put the money in cultural programs,
    teachers, the real basics, less on hauling kids by bus, and
    athletics, and ... you know the drill.

    Actually, I see the athletics and arts and all the rest right in
    there. Used to do that. We still could if we stopped trying to
    do everything on the cheap. There is an occasional time to be
    reactionary. In this case, go back to doing it all.

    Doesn't do either for me, angers me. We don't teach kids
    civics anymore, we just keep dumbing it down and dumbing it
    own, but the big fascists who really have a lot to gain like a
    dumbed down populace.

    Yep. And they sell it by prattling about how much money they are
    saving, and how much more the people would have to pay. Yet we
    don't seem to be paying any less.

    Depends on how you save money whether you're actually
    robbing from your own future or not though.

    Uh...yeah... and I say that's exactly what's happening. Or our
    grandchildren's.

    The parasites on Wall Street are the right targets for the
    anger. They don't profit from a better life, they profit whether
    we win or lose.

    That's my problem with them exactly. I understand the
    house has to win the majority of the time to stand in
    business, but when the house wins no matter what, and
    you've not got a choice but to play ...

    Thing is, in an honest game we can all win. They like to say
    it's not a zero sum game, but it actually is. At least the way
    they play it.

    Fifty seven? More like a hundred and fifty seven, and still
    nothing on.

    YEah I know, but that Springsteen song came to mind, so I
    used Bruce's number <grin>.

    Aha! Was that Bruce Heinz? With the E-street ketchup company?

    What was once the greatest country on earth is no longer a
    bastion of freedom and a beacon of hope. Screw hope and
    freedom, there's not enough money in it.

    Same for peace and plenty. You can't be king if there isn't
    someone you can rule over.

    YEah I know, but if you can still everything you need or
    want who in his right mind would want to be king? THen you
    get the responsibility for all of it too.

    That's just it, it doesn't make sense. It can be good for all of
    us, but some do want to be king.

    But, to make sure that hope and freedom go by the boards we
    have to discount and marginalize true culture as well.
    Music and art, screw them too. WE've caused there to be a
    fight between the ignorant "we want it all for free" folks
    and the creators who should expect to get paid for their
    work.

    Well, the Wall Street types want it all for free too, just in much
    bigger measure.

    OF course they do, and they've set up the creative arts
    types and the true creators of the intellectual property
    that is now being fought over to lose no matter how it
    goes. When as a young man reading sci fi I thought of
    something like the internet I expected to see it become a
    true cultural renaissance, but these days I'm not so sure.

    Oh how I know what you mean. The internet does have so much
    potential, and so little delivered.

    But, the creative artists who use it to get their art out
    there don't have the budget or the expert knowledge to
    create listenable or viewable product oftentimes.
    Acquiring the facilities and the expertise using them costs
    money, and in today's markets that isn't available.

    The Vietnam war era was a cultural renaisance period, IMO, but
    this is a time of decline. So much opportunity, and so hard to
    actually make something of it.

    Try to steal intelectual property from the big guys and you will
    get nailed. But the little guy has so many barriers to get past.

    Sometimes I thank god I'm already on the down side of the
    slippery slope, at least I won't get to see the worst of
    what the fascists and their dumbed down masses will create.
    I am truly sorry I left offspring behind to be part of it however.

    I'll stand by that last remark.

    I just hope I get to stick around long enough to join the
    battle.

    tO be honest with you Bob, I'm tired of the battle. I

    I'm tired of this battle, I'm looking forward to the chance to
    actually go after the true bad guys.

    spent too much of my younger years when not playing music or
    working a sound board engaged in it. I did enough
    volunteer advocacy back in the '80's to mid-nineties that
    I'm burned out on it. Trouble is, I know it's needed more
    now than ever before, and I just can't bring myself to join
    that world again. I burned my candle at both ends pretty
    good back then <grin>.

    I have a feeling it's going to get a lot worse before it gets
    better.



    BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

    ... Jesus' family was so poor they never had a Christmas tree.
    --- Via Silver Xpress V4.5/P [Reg]
    * Origin: Since 1991 And Were Still Here! DOCSPLACE.TZO.COM (1:123/140)
  • From Richard Webb@1:116/901 to BOB KLAHN on Sun Apr 3 13:51:31 2011
    Hi Bob,

    On Sat 2039-Apr-02 20:00, BOB KLAHN (1:123/140) wrote to RICHARD WEBB:

    <snip>

    Reading an article, yeah I know, NY times, not some folks'
    favorite rag, but talking about how much more we spend than
    many other countries on education, and how much less we get
    for it. AS they said, put the money in cultural programs,
    teachers, the real basics, less on hauling kids by bus, and
    athletics, and ... you know the drill.

    Actually, I see the athletics and arts and all the rest right in
    there. Used to do that. We still could if we stopped trying to do everything on the cheap. There is an occasional time to be
    reactionary. In this case, go back to doing it all.

    Would be nice, because *all* of it is part of creating a
    well rounded person ready to take his/her place as a
    citizen, including the athletics.

    <snip again>

    Depends on how you save money whether you're actually
    robbing from your own future or not though.

    Uh...yeah... and I say that's exactly what's happening. Or our grandchildren's.

    That's exactly where it is, rob your grandchildren.

    <snip again>

    That's my problem with them exactly. I understand the
    house has to win the majority of the time to stand in
    business, but when the house wins no matter what, and
    you've not got a choice but to play ...

    Thing is, in an honest game we can all win. They like to say it's
    not a zero sum game, but it actually is. At least the way they play
    it.

    OF course it is, and imho the game has been rigged for a
    long time.

    Fifty seven? More like a hundred and fifty seven, and still
    nothing on.

    YEah I know, but that Springsteen song came to mind, so I
    used Bruce's number <grin>.

    Aha! Was that Bruce Heinz? With the E-street ketchup company?

    something like that <grin>.

    <snip>

    YEah I know, but if you can still everything you need or
    want who in his right mind would want to be king? THen you
    get the responsibility for all of it too.

    That's just it, it doesn't make sense. It can be good for all of
    us, but some do want to be king.

    A true indicator of insanity imho. I'd rather not thank
    you.

    But, to make sure that hope and freedom go by the boards we
    have to discount and marginalize true culture as well.
    Music and art, screw them too. WE've caused there to be a
    fight between the ignorant "we want it all for free" folks
    and the creators who should expect to get paid for their
    work.

    Well, the Wall Street types want it all for free too, just in much
    bigger measure.

    OF course they do, and they've set up the creative arts
    types and the true creators of the intellectual property
    that is now being fought over to lose no matter how it
    goes. When as a young man reading sci fi I thought of
    something like the internet I expected to see it become a
    true cultural renaissance, but these days I'm not so sure.

    Oh how I know what you mean. The internet does have so much
    potential, and so little delivered.

    IT does, but we have there some real big problems. IF the
    content is good enough to transcend the poor production its
    creator can't profit from it.

    But, the creative artists who use it to get their art out
    there don't have the budget or the expert knowledge to
    create listenable or viewable product oftentimes.
    Acquiring the facilities and the expertise using them costs
    money, and in today's markets that isn't available.

    The Vietnam war era was a cultural renaisance period, IMO, but
    this is a time of decline. So much opportunity, and so hard to
    actually make something of it.

    OF course it is, our young people were still learning actual science then. The
    creative artists wanted to explore those
    new technologies and techniques in the making of their art.
    NOw we just demand cheaper tools, preferrably free. We
    don't want to learn about the tools and techniques that go
    along with them though.
    THat's the biggest difference between the vw era and now.

    Try to steal intelectual property from the big guys and you will
    get nailed. But the little guy has so many barriers to get past.

    RIght, and the trouble is, the corporates can protect their
    intellectual property and even virtually steal it from its
    true creators, often for payment of a pittance. ONe can
    understand the music pirates and their anger against the
    corporates, but they end up harming the very people who
    create the content they want. The demand for free content
    has driven the business I'm in to the edge of the cliff.
    THe live entertainment end of things was always the race to
    the bottom, but the truly high end providers of these
    services who own a warehouse full of gear can still survive. But, in the production end i.e. recording, mastering, post
    production, etc. that part of the business has taken a real
    beating in the last two decades.
    I could tell you some stories there.

    <snip>

    I'm tired of this battle, I'm looking forward to the chance to
    actually go after the true bad guys.

    DOn't I wish. THey're well insulated.

    <snip again>

    I have a feeling it's going to get a lot worse before it gets
    better.

    Looks that way from here as well.

    Regards,
    Richard
    --- timEd 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: (1:116/901)
  • From Steve Kemp@1:123/789 to BOB KLAHN on Fri Apr 15 02:47:46 2011


    I have a feeling it's going to get a lot worse before it gets
    better.

    That's "silly talk", PANIC talk!

    We aren't in a panic! Shit, we have the lowest tax rates in history!

    Like Obama said... you richly fed fugs has been feedin' at the troth too long, time to cull! Let', I say lets
    Let's ger't ouwnz!

    EAT THE RICH!

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-US; rv:1.9.2.15) Gecko/20110303
    * Origin: Fidonet Via Newsreader - http://www.easternstar.info (1:123/789.0)