Replying to a message of JIM WELLER to BOB ACKLEY:

Well if Medicare is underfunded and taxpayers won't pick up
the tab there just might be a connection.

There will be, and real soon.

it refers only to the
current problem Medicare is having WRT providers dropping
out of the system.

Because of the lack of payment. See above.

Health care and other 'fringe' benefits to employees are
holdovers from WW II. Because of wage and price controls,
employers could not offer more money to employees to
attract or keep them so they started giving the employees
'fringe benefits' that were not subject to government wage
and price controls.

It's more than that. It's part of a long term world wide
trend in social programs that started in England with old
age pensions in 1909.

Anybody can juggle statistics to support whatever position
they hold, this is especially true for organizations that
have agendas - such as any government agency or the WHO -
and it's why I don't pay much, if any, attention to them.
In point of fact the US government has been 'cooking the
books' on the statistics it provides on its various web
sites for years.

So what you are saying then is the other 29 of the world's
30 wealthiest nations:

-1- have lousy programs that aren't as good or as cheap as
they appear

I don't know how good or bad any of them are, and I don't think any of
them are as cheap as they claim to be. AFAIK the health systems of
most westernized countries are adequate.

-2- are spending more money on health care that they admit
to

Undoubtedly.

-2- are engaging in a gigantic co-ordinated cover-up to make
themselves look good

Most likely.

And that the American system is better, except for the
Medicare part, even though your doctors charge more, your
drugs are more expensive and 15% of you have to pay cash
for everyting and then declare bankrupcy in droves if they
get seriously ill?

Our drugs are more expensive because countries such as Canada don't
allow the drug companies to recover their costs - and the US customers
pay tose costs for the people of those countries.

And BTW most of the discussions about the cost of health care are
really about the price of it. There is a difference between prices and
costs. Governments can control prices, it is very difficult for governments
to control costs.

The US system is by no means perfect; there are a number of ways to
improve the it, and none of them involve a government takeover as
proposed by our criminal congress.

Oh yeah, and on top of it all, your government lies too.

All governments do that.

How do you know the "the US government has been 'cooking the
books' on the statistics it provides"? Who has the real
figures and how do we know we can trust them?

One example. The US government claims there was no inflation in the
US in 2009. The price of dry dog food alone went from $11.50/bag in
January to $17.00/bag by October. While the cost of fuel is lower than
it has been in past years, I paid $1.90/gallon for heating oil in February
and $2.49/gallon for the same stuff in December. I don't get nearly as
much for my money at the grocery store than I used to. But inflation is
zero, just ask the government (which didn't want to have to give its
employees and beneficiaries cost of living increases in 2010, that's the
real reason for the claim).

The unemployment numbers are cooked, too. Among other reasons they
ignore people who have given up and are no longer looking for jobs.

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* Origin: Bob's Boneyard, Emerson, Iowa (1:300/3)

Replying to a message of JIM WELLER to BOB ACKLEY:

Our drugs are more expensive because countries such as
Canada don't allow the drug companies to recover their
costs - and the US customers pay tose costs for the people
of those countries.

I don't buy that. Canada has 50 pharmaceutical companies
that do research. 21 of them are publicly traded on the
Toronto Stock Exchange. The largest one, BioVail, has $1B
in sales, spends $100M (10%) in R&D and earned $200M
profit.

How do you know the "the US government has been 'cooking
the books' on the statistics it provides"?

One example. The US government claims there was no
inflation in the US in 2009. The price of dry dog food
alone

In the US, like Canada, the cost of food went up a lot and
the cost of energy (gasoline, home heating oil, natural
gas) went down a lot,

Not around here. Home heating oil went from $1.81/gallon last February
to $2.49/gallon this past December, that looks like it went UP a lot.
Gasoline is higher today than it was a year ago - but not as much as
heating oil.

with other components of the Consumer
Price index remaining fairly stable. Your cost of housing
also dropped from lower home prices; ours dropped from
lower interest rates. The overall index went down in 2008
and early 2009; ours started recovering six months ago -
yours has not yet.

Since I don't believe government statistics I place no faith in that
'overall index.' Insofar as economic recovery is concerned, I don't
believe it's going to happen any time soon. A recent article - posted elsewhere - noted that US employers dropped another 85,000 jobs in
December ('unexpectedly,' according to the article), that's probably a
million jobs gone in 2009 alone.

IMO Obama inherited an economic mess from Bush minor - and is
rapidly making the situation worse. Much worse.

The unemployment numbers are cooked, too. Among other
reasons they ignore people who have given up and are no
longer looking for jobs.

That part of your statement is true. Here too. And it is
very difficult to get welfare role rates or labour
participation rates.

Cheers

YK Jim

... Have you considered applying to re-join the
Commonwealth?

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
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! Origin: Doc's Place BBS Fido Since 1991 docsplace.tzo.com
(1:123/140)

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* Origin: Bob's Boneyard, Emerson, Iowa (1:300/3)

Replying to a message of JIM WELLER to BOB ACKLEY:

the cost of energy (gasoline, home heating oil, natural
gas) went down a lot,

Not around here. Home heating oil went from $1.81/gallon
last February to $2.49/gallon this past December

That's truly odd. Oil and gasoline prices generally trend up
and down with the price of crude. I saw heating oil peak at
$1.32/L here when crude oil peaked. It since went down to
$0.83 and rose again in recent weeks to $0.93. And I track
it weekly as part of my job.

I filled the tank again yesterday and the price/gallon was up about 7
cents more, to $2.565/gallon.

I don't believe government statistics

Then who do you believe?

I read a lot of newspapers from around the world and this
morning's column in the Miami Herald highlighted what the
rest of the world sees as problems with current US health
care.

The demand for health care is infinite, and the health care resources
are limited. For that reason alone, care must be rationed and not
everybody is going to get the care they want or need. That's just
the way it is.

Historically in the US, care has been rationed by price; in those industrialized countries that provide care to their people rationing
is done by bureaucratic fiat (including having to wait for care). I
suspect the situation has changed in Britain since they got so much
bad press over here about it years ago, but it used to be that if one
was over age 55 and developed problems that required kidney dialysis,
the NHS would not provide it - the patient was simply told that there
was nothing they could do.

Since the government - and to a lesser extent big insurors - got involved
in the US health care system, the ability of providers to provide charity
care to the truly needy has declined, because the providers are no longer allowed to include the costs of providing that charity care as overhead in other patients' bills - particularly those sent to Medicare. *That* is the dirty little secret the government - and big insurors - don't want to get out.

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* Origin: Bob's Boneyard, Emerson, Iowa (1:300/3)

government agency or the WHO - and it's why I don't pay much, if
any, attention to them. In point of fact the US government has been 'cooking the books' on the statistics it provides on its various web sites for years.

It's the same with various surveys, one can structure any survey to give the answers one wants rather than the truth. And, of course, for every expert one can find to support one's position, someone else can find another expert to say just the opposite.

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* Origin: Bob's Boneyard, Emerson, Iowa (1:300/3)