From Newsgroup: alt.recovery.aa

Would ya do some math for me, please, pertaining to some of the things
I've learned today about the percentage of alcohol by volume of certain
NA beverages, how many bottles of that particular beverage have to be
drank and the period of time they would have to drink it in, if said
person or subject were of the hopeless state of, not necessarily mind,
but of body and had drank too much, too often, for too long and in doing
so had trashed the organ systems of their human body that would under
normal circumstances in a average, normal person, would be steadily excreting, expelling, or elimination the toxic chemical alcohol from
their bodies, and keep it from getting to the most vital part of the
body, the brain, and were retaining for the most part, all the alcohol in
all the NA beverages they drank, accumulated in their body and reached al level to reach or exceed what is normally, today, considered BAC to be considered legally sober? In other words, could a person of the above
stated hopeless state of body, drink enough, sheesh, I dunno, perhaps
O'doul's in say a certain number of hours and get in an automobile and
drive and be breaking the law, or be guilty of being drunk or not sober
either legally or in AA speak?

I think I said all the above in an understandable manner, even if it
might be a pretty long sentence for Charlie M. He Coonass ya knows 'nd
likes things short, sweet 'nd uncomplicated. ;-)

I know that's a lot of ifs and other factors involved in a precise calculation, like body weight, activity, ambient air temperature etc. but could you come up with some kind of ball park figure. Or educated guesstimation.

That is if you feel up to doing heavy math today. ;-)

CC


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From Newsgroup: alt.recovery.aa

On 8/3/2011 5:39 PM, Charlie L. wrote:
In other words, could a person of the above

stated hopeless state of body, drink enough, sheesh, I dunno, perhaps O'doul's in say a certain number of hours and get in an automobile and
drive and be breaking the law, or be guilty of being drunk or not sober either legally or in AA speak?

I think I said all the above in an understandable manner, even if it
might be a pretty long sentence for Charlie M. He Coonass ya knows 'nd
likes things short, sweet 'nd uncomplicated. ;-)

You damned straight, Cowboy. :-)

I know that's a lot of ifs and other factors involved in a precise calculation, like body weight, activity, ambient air temperature etc. but could you come up with some kind of ball park figure. Or educated guesstimation.

That is if you feel up to doing heavy math today. ;-)

CC

I'm not up for heavy math, but I'm pretty good with round numbers.

I've often heard it said that an average-sized adult male can process
one regular-strength beer per hour without becoming intoxicated. So if
it takes at *least* 10 NA beers to equal 1 regular beer, a person would
have to drink at a significantly faster rate than 10 NA beers per hour
to become intoxicated.

I found some online calculators, and it seems it would take a 160 lb.
man 5.5 12 oz. regular beers in a two hour period to reach .08 BAC. That translates, then, to at least 55 NA beers in 2 hours. Can it be done? I suspect you'd be throwing most of it up long before you could actually
ingest that much. :-)
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From Newsgroup: alt.recovery.aa

In article <Zo6dna0yFv-2U6TTnZ2dnUVZ8rGdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
"Charlie L." <charlie@the-old-gnu-zoo.org> wrote:

That is if you feel up to doing heavy math today. ;-)

Haven't felt like doing heavy math in years -- something I seemed to
have given up along with alcohol (part of that "personality change
sufficient to bring about sobriety"). Besides, I think somebody here
already did part of the calculations -- didn't they say it'd take 10
O'Douls to equal one regular beer? What I don't know is how many
regular beers it takes (in how long) to reach the legal limit, so I
couldn't even do that part of the calculation. In any case, I never
drank beer to get drunk -- took too long, I guess.

--
Ted L.
Benedictus qui venit in nomine Domini.
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From Newsgroup: alt.recovery.aa

In article <j1cmvs$3e4$1@dont-email.me>,
"Charlie M. 1958" <always@impatient.com> wrote:

I found some online calculators, and it seems it would take a 160 lb.
man 5.5 12 oz. regular beers in a two hour period to reach .08 BAC. That translates, then, to at least 55 NA beers in 2 hours. Can it be done? I suspect you'd be throwing most of it up long before you could actually ingest that much. :-)

Thanks for doing the math Charlie. (I've always told people my PhD
wasn't worth much except for the bragging rights.) But there are always
those who win Nathan's annual hot dog eating contest by eating more hot
dogs than any normal person can imagine -- so there probably are those
who could in fact drink that many O'Douls in two hours.

--
Ted L.
Benedictus qui venit in nomine Domini.
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From Newsgroup: alt.recovery.aa

On Wed, 03 Aug 2011 18:52:33 -0500, Charlie M. 1958 wrote:

On 8/3/2011 5:39 PM, Charlie L. wrote:
In other words, could a person of the above

stated hopeless state of body, drink enough, sheesh, I dunno, perhaps
O'doul's in say a certain number of hours and get in an automobile and
drive and be breaking the law, or be guilty of being drunk or not sober
either legally or in AA speak?

I think I said all the above in an understandable manner, even if it
might be a pretty long sentence for Charlie M. He Coonass ya knows 'nd
likes things short, sweet 'nd uncomplicated. ;-)

You damned straight, Cowboy. :-)

I know that's a lot of ifs and other factors involved in a precise
calculation, like body weight, activity, ambient air temperature etc.
but could you come up with some kind of ball park figure. Or educated
guesstimation.

That is if you feel up to doing heavy math today. ;-)

CC

I'm not up for heavy math, but I'm pretty good with round numbers.

I've often heard it said that an average-sized adult male can process
one regular-strength beer per hour without becoming intoxicated. So if
it takes at *least* 10 NA beers to equal 1 regular beer, a person would
have to drink at a significantly faster rate than 10 NA beers per hour
to become intoxicated.

I found some online calculators, and it seems it would take a 160 lb.
man 5.5 12 oz. regular beers in a two hour period to reach .08 BAC. That translates, then, to at least 55 NA beers in 2 hours. Can it be done? I suspect you'd be throwing most of it up long before you could actually
ingest that much. :-)

Well, perhaps not too clearly:

if said person or subject were of the hopeless state of, not necessarily
mind, but of body and had drank too much, too often, for too long and in
doing so had trashed the organ systems of their human body that would
under normal circumstances in a average, normal person, would be steadily excreting, expelling, or elimination the toxic chemical alcohol from
their bodies, and keep it from getting to the most vital part of the
body, the brain, and were retaining for the most part, all the alcohol in
all the NA beverages they drank, accumulated in their body and reached a
level to reach or exceed what is normally, today, considered BAC to be considered legally sober? In other words, could a person of the above
stated hopeless state of body, drink enough, sheesh, I dunno, perhaps
O'doul's in say a certain number of hours and get in an automobile and
drive and be breaking the law, or be guilty of being drunk or not sober
either legally or in AA speak?

Lemme restate it.

If I, let's say, from my lifetime of drinking alcohol and using drugs developed a liver ailment, like sclerosis or one of the flavors of
hepatitis and had problems with the organs and chemical balances of the
body like most long term chronic alcoholics have, and the body is
incapable of metabolize and eliminating the alcohol at a *normal* rate
and by some quirk of fate might say like be an infant consuming a can of
beer, say about as fast as they can empty a baby bottle of milk.

In effect be in such hopeless state of body, that one bottle of .5% BV beverage might equal how many in a *normal* as you are basing your
response on. Kind of like this question on Yahoo Answers:

http://tinyurl.com/3vyvc43

You know like a really *ill* person, liver and metabolism wise, drinking perhaps close to a case of NA beer in a Sheesh, I dunno, course of a
really hot day. maybe like two an hour for a 12 hour period or one an
hour for a 24 hour period conceivably retain enough alcohol in their
blood to be considered intoxicated under the laws of most states? I had
all this crap in anatomy and physiology but I think I was on a bad binge
drunk the week or so that Dr. Morgan harped on it. ;-)

CC
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From Newsgroup: alt.recovery.aa

In article <UKCdnbmxS-p9eKTTnZ2dnUVZ8hadnZ2d@giganews.com>,
"Charlie L." <charlie@the-old-gnu-zoo.org> wrote:

if said person or subject were of the hopeless state of, not necessarily mind, but of body and had drank too much, too often, for too long and in doing so had trashed the organ systems of their human body that would
under normal circumstances in a average, normal person, would be steadily excreting, expelling, or elimination the toxic chemical alcohol from
their bodies, and keep it from getting to the most vital part of the
body, the brain, and were retaining for the most part, all the alcohol in all the NA beverages they drank, accumulated in their body and reached a level to reach or exceed what is normally, today, considered BAC to be considered legally sober? In other words, could a person of the above
stated hopeless state of body, drink enough, sheesh, I dunno, perhaps O'doul's in say a certain number of hours and get in an automobile and
drive and be breaking the law, or be guilty of being drunk or not sober either legally or in AA speak?

Do you (or anyone) know how many regular beers someone in such a
physical state would have to drink to reach that condition? If so, then
the calculation is easy -- 10 times as many O'Douls in that amount of
time.

--
Ted L.
Benedictus qui venit in nomine Domini.
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From Newsgroup: alt.recovery.aa

On Wed, 03 Aug 2011 19:28:31 -0500, Ted L. wrote:

In article <UKCdnbmxS-p9eKTTnZ2dnUVZ8hadnZ2d@giganews.com>,
"Charlie L." <charlie@the-old-gnu-zoo.org> wrote:

if said person or subject were of the hopeless state of, not
necessarily mind, but of body and had drank too much, too often, for
too long and in doing so had trashed the organ systems of their human
body that would under normal circumstances in a average, normal
person, would be steadily excreting, expelling, or elimination the
toxic chemical alcohol from their bodies, and keep it from getting to
the most vital part of the body, the brain, and were retaining for the
most part, all the alcohol in all the NA beverages they drank,
accumulated in their body and reached a level to reach or exceed what
is normally, today, considered BAC to be considered legally sober? In
other words, could a person of the above stated hopeless state of body,
drink enough, sheesh, I dunno, perhaps O'doul's in say a certain number
of hours and get in an automobile and drive and be breaking the law, or
be guilty of being drunk or not sober either legally or in AA speak?

Do you (or anyone) know how many regular beers someone in such a
physical state would have to drink to reach that condition? If so, then
the calculation is easy -- 10 times as many O'Douls in that amount of
time.

Well, I suppose it's going to have as wide a variation as what is too
much, too often, for too long, for various individuals, and that does
seem to have a pretty wide spectrum. Some people reach that too much, too often. too long, seemingly in a couple or three years or even less and
some folk die from other causes before they ever reach the line. Isn't
the discussion or the participants ranging from less than 00:01 AM on the clock to 23:59 PM, to even possibly include that instant of insanity at midnight. ;-)

CC
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From Newsgroup: alt.recovery.aa

On 04/08/11 10:28, Ted L. wrote:

In article<UKCdnbmxS-p9eKTTnZ2dnUVZ8hadnZ2d@giganews.com>, "Charlie L."<charlie@the-old-gnu-zoo.org> wrote:

if said person or subject were of the hopeless state of, not
necessarily mind, but of body and had drank too much, too often,
for too long and in doing so had trashed the organ systems of their
human body that would under normal circumstances in a average,
normal person, would be steadily excreting, expelling, or
elimination the toxic chemical alcohol from their bodies, and keep
it from getting to the most vital part of the body, the brain, and
were retaining for the most part, all the alcohol in all the NA
beverages they drank, accumulated in their body and reached a level
to reach or exceed what is normally, today, considered BAC to be
considered legally sober? In other words, could a person of the
above stated hopeless state of body, drink enough, sheesh, I dunno,
perhaps O'doul's in say a certain number of hours and get in an
automobile and drive and be breaking the law, or be guilty of being
drunk or not sober either legally or in AA speak?

Do you (or anyone) know how many regular beers someone in such a
physical state would have to drink to reach that condition? If so,
then the calculation is easy -- 10 times as many O'Douls in that
amount of time.

Much of this thread seems to be premised on different humans having
identical biochemistry.

Australians apt to get obviously drunk as soon as they started drinking
are (or at least were) generalised as "two pot screamers" - but I doubt
any two individuals in that (or any other) category of drinker have
identical physiological/psychological constitutions.

Seems to me that many pro NA beer thumps who denigrate BB thumps for
"cookie cutter sobriety" have, in their own way, become what they detest.





--
The older we get, the better we were ...Condamine Codgers
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From Newsgroup: alt.recovery.aa

On 8/3/2011 8:04 PM, Bob wrote:

On 04/08/11 10:28, Ted L. wrote:

In article<UKCdnbmxS-p9eKTTnZ2dnUVZ8hadnZ2d@giganews.com>, "Charlie
L."<charlie@the-old-gnu-zoo.org> wrote:

if said person or subject were of the hopeless state of, not
necessarily mind, but of body and had drank too much, too often,
for too long and in doing so had trashed the organ systems of their
human body that would under normal circumstances in a average,
normal person, would be steadily excreting, expelling, or
elimination the toxic chemical alcohol from their bodies, and keep
it from getting to the most vital part of the body, the brain, and
were retaining for the most part, all the alcohol in all the NA
beverages they drank, accumulated in their body and reached a level
to reach or exceed what is normally, today, considered BAC to be
considered legally sober? In other words, could a person of the
above stated hopeless state of body, drink enough, sheesh, I dunno,
perhaps O'doul's in say a certain number of hours and get in an
automobile and drive and be breaking the law, or be guilty of being
drunk or not sober either legally or in AA speak?

Do you (or anyone) know how many regular beers someone in such a
physical state would have to drink to reach that condition? If so,
then the calculation is easy -- 10 times as many O'Douls in that
amount of time.

Much of this thread seems to be premised on different humans having
identical biochemistry.

Australians apt to get obviously drunk as soon as they started drinking
are (or at least were) generalised as "two pot screamers" - but I doubt
any two individuals in that (or any other) category of drinker have
identical physiological/psychological constitutions.

Seems to me that many pro NA beer thumps who denigrate BB thumps for
"cookie cutter sobriety" have, in their own way, become what they detest.

Your point of differing biochemistry is well taken, Bob. To be clear, I
don't personally recommend NA beer-drinking for recovering alcoholics.
If someone new in sobriety asked me for my opinion on whether it was
okay for them to drink it, my response would be along the lines of "Why
take the risk that it might have a negative physical or psychological
impact on you?"

However, for those who /have/ made the decision to drink it, and
experienced no ill effects from doing so, I don't see how the quality of
their sobriety has been compromised in any way.
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From Newsgroup: alt.recovery.aa

On 04/08/11 12:45, Charlie M. 1958 wrote:

On 8/3/2011 8:04 PM, Bob wrote:

However, for those who /have/ made the decision to drink it, and
experienced no ill effects from doing so, I don't see how the
quality of their sobriety has been compromised in any way.

Charlie, as you're probably well aware, my track record is cluttered
with opinion purported as fact as to what is, and isn't "good" for
recovering alcoholics. However, given I can't recall my /ever/
disagreeing with the sentiments you've expressed there, perhaps just a
tad more navel gazing would be a good thing. ;-)


--
"Not drunk is he who from the floor can rise alone, and still drink
more; But drunk is he who prostrate lies, without the power to drink
or rise." ... Thomas Love Peacock.
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From Newsgroup: alt.recovery.aa

On Wed, 03 Aug 2011 19:15:09 -0500, "Ted L." <TedL719@yahoo.com>
wrote:

In article <j1cmvs$3e4$1@dont-email.me>,
"Charlie M. 1958" <always@impatient.com> wrote:

I found some online calculators, and it seems it would take a 160 lb.
man 5.5 12 oz. regular beers in a two hour period to reach .08 BAC. That
translates, then, to at least 55 NA beers in 2 hours. Can it be done? I
suspect you'd be throwing most of it up long before you could actually
ingest that much. :-)

Thanks for doing the math Charlie. (I've always told people my PhD
wasn't worth much except for the bragging rights.) But there are always >those who win Nathan's annual hot dog eating contest by eating more hot
dogs than any normal person can imagine -- so there probably are those
who could in fact drink that many O'Douls in two hours.

Yes, those figures are about right for the .08bac, for regular beer.
I was looking at one of those bac calculators too.

This is an easy one to use:
http://www.ou.edu/oupd/bac.htm

There is no way in hell that I could drink even 10 NA beers in 2
hours, much less 55 of them. I drank 10 of them in one day (12
hours), and that was on a very hot day, where I was real thirsty and
sweating like crazy. I probably sweat out a 12oz can as fast as I
drank it, because I did not piss much more than normal.

----------
Does alcohol come out in sweat? I really dont know????????
---------

And if you want to know what larger concentrations of alcohol cause,
this is a good site: http://www.ventura-dui.com/alcohol-level-calculator/stages-of-alcohol-intoxication


And to look up the alcohol percentage of most common beers and some
imports, look here:
http://www.realbeer.com/edu/health/calories.php


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From Newsgroup: alt.recovery.aa

On Wed, 03 Aug 2011 21:45:34 -0500,
Charlie M. 1958 <always@impatient.com> wrote:

...I don't personally recommend NA beer-drinking for
recovering alcoholics. If someone new in sobriety asked me for
my opinion on whether it was okay for them to drink it, my
response would be along the lines of "Why take the risk that it
might have a negative physical or psychological impact on you?"

However, for those who /have/ made the decision to drink it, and
experienced no ill effects from doing so, I don't see how the
quality of their sobriety has been compromised in any way.

Very well said, Charlie. My thinking exactly.

--
Ted H.
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From Newsgroup: alt.recovery.aa

On Thu, 04 Aug 2011 00:08:38 -0500,
Ex-Ex-Alcoholic#967895.06@myplace.com <Ex-Ex-Alcoholic#967895.06@myplace.com>
wrote:

There is no way in hell that I could drink even 10 NA beers in 2
hours, much less 55 of them. I drank 10 of them in one day (12
hours), and that was on a very hot day, where I was real thirsty
and sweating like crazy. I probably sweat out a 12oz can as
fast as I drank it, because I did not piss much more than
normal.

I can't recall that I've *ever* had more than two. And the great
majority of the time I just have one--after that, the taste just
doesn't seem very good.

By the way, the taste (though quite similar to beer) *is*
different from regular beer. The taste of the alcohol is
noticeable in regular beer, and NA beer tastes a bit different
because of its absence.

--
Ted H.
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From Newsgroup: alt.recovery.aa

On 2011/08/04 8:51 PM, Ted H wrote:

On Wed, 03 Aug 2011 21:45:34 -0500, Charlie M.
1958<always@impatient.com> wrote:

...I don't personally recommend NA beer-drinking for recovering
alcoholics. If someone new in sobriety asked me for my opinion on
whether it was okay for them to drink it, my response would be
along the lines of "Why take the risk that it might have a
negative physical or psychological impact on you?"

However, for those who /have/ made the decision to drink it, and
experienced no ill effects from doing so, I don't see how the
quality of their sobriety has been compromised in any way.

Very well said, Charlie. My thinking exactly.

IIRC, despite Mark at least once inviting a new/prospective AA member to
the Warner household for low alcohol drinkies, Tedw is the /only/ tipple advocate here who has repeatedly and clearly enunciated that "new to
sobriety" proviso.
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From Newsgroup: alt.recovery.aa

On 08/03/2011 07:52 PM, Charlie M. 1958 wrote:

I found some online calculators, and it seems it would take a 160 lb.
man 5.5 12 oz. regular beers in a two hour period to reach .08 BAC. That translates, then, to at least 55 NA beers in 2 hours. Can it be done? I suspect you'd be throwing most of it up long before you could actually
ingest that much. :-)

Hee hee...Looks like Charlie just threw out some prime chum in the water
for Sharx & Mike.


--
Dr. Skeezix LaRocca, D.B. (Doctor Of Buffoonery)
Registered Linux Novice & Abuser #526706
We aren't cheap, but we're reasonable
No appointment needed
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From Newsgroup: alt.recovery.aa

On 8/4/2011 9:18 AM, Skeezix LaRocca wrote:

On 08/03/2011 07:52 PM, Charlie M. 1958 wrote:

I found some online calculators, and it seems it would take a 160 lb.
man 5.5 12 oz. regular beers in a two hour period to reach .08 BAC. That
translates, then, to at least 55 NA beers in 2 hours. Can it be done? I
suspect you'd be throwing most of it up long before you could actually
ingest that much. :-)

Hee hee...Looks like Charlie just threw out some prime chum in the water
for Sharx & Mike.

Well the other Charlie already shit all over my calculations by bringing
up the possibility of alkies having lessened their tolerance due to
abuse. :-)
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From Newsgroup: alt.recovery.aa

On Thu, 04 Aug 2011 06:54:40 -0400, Ted H <theo@heise.nu> wrote:

On Thu, 04 Aug 2011 00:08:38 -0500,
Ex-Ex-Alcoholic#967895.06@myplace.com

<Ex-Ex-Alcoholic#967895.06@myplace.com> wrote:

There is no way in hell that I could drink even 10 NA beers in 2
hours, much less 55 of them. I drank 10 of them in one day (12
hours), and that was on a very hot day, where I was real thirsty
and sweating like crazy. I probably sweat out a 12oz can as
fast as I drank it, because I did not piss much more than
normal.

I can't recall that I've *ever* had more than two. And the great
majority of the time I just have one--after that, the taste just
doesn't seem very good.

By the way, the taste (though quite similar to beer) *is*
different from regular beer. The taste of the alcohol is
noticeable in regular beer, and NA beer tastes a bit different
because of its absence.

Normally I only drink one or two of them, but when they're free and on
the temperature is near 100, it was not hard to drink 10.
i agree that the real beer tastes better, and I suppose it's the
alcohol, but it's just like soda. Diet soda tastes like shit, but the
real stuff is good. Actually, NA beer is much better than diet soda
is in comparison. O'douls seems to go flat after half the can is
gonem (in minutes). Other NA beers dont do that. But yes, NA does
taste different than regular. I think they will keep improving them to
taste more like the real thing. They have already improved them much
since the stuff I first drank back in the 70's. That was terrible!

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